- This topic has 16 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 9 months ago by SantaCruzRider.
200 miles under my belt
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June 16, 2009 at 1:40 am #3010SafetyFirstParticipant
Looked down at the trip odometer today, and noticed it was over 200 miles since I bought my Ninja 250.
So far, I already filled it up once a few days ago. I had to stop to get a cold Poweraide – it gets hot riding around. Figured, why not give it some fresh 92 octane. 1.7 gallons was all it needed.
I figured out that when making a turn onto a side street, the rear brake seems to work well. It makes sense… that leaves the front wheel with more maneuverability.
I still find myself during turns trying to remember what the BRC instructors were saying. Outside.. inside.. outside? Slow, roll, look? I remembered today that I can move the handlebars less by just putting pressure on the footpeg in the direction I want to turn. I need to re-read the BRC book.
I tried the sport riding posture today. I’m not sure if I’m doing it right, or if I just look like a moron trying it. I found it’s easy to shed some speed when coming up to an intersection going 55 just by going from sport to standard posture. Who knew the wind drag was that great in standard?
June 16, 2009 at 6:30 am #19765eternal05ParticipantThat rear brake is absolutely essential for tight maneuvers. You can do anything with the rear brake on. It makes me feel like I’m riding in slow motion through peanut butter. It’s great! You’ll find it not only helps when making tight right turns, but also when parking, pulling U-turns, and negotiating slow-moving traffic. Nothing makes me happier than not having to put my feet down.
Your line through a turn is really important, so definitely brush up on those fundamentals. Going from outside to inside (apex) to outside is also really helpful, as it allows you to increase the radius of the turn (i.e. reduce the “sharpness”) while also making you more visible to oncoming traffic. You might want to look into late apexing, a technique that’s particularly effective in preventing surprises when riding unknown roads. Also, make sure to look before the roll. What you’re looking at could be the most important aspect of your riding.
It is incredible how much wind drag dissipates when you get into a tuck isn’t it! Back in the day when I was braking in my 250R and dealing with that insufferable 4000rpm rev limit, I found that I could get the bike up to 39-40 mph without going over 4K rpm by getting into the “bubble.” Normally the bike would hit the rev limit at 34-35 mph.
Once you start getting up to highway speeds, you’ll feel this even more. At 75mph the force of wind against you is pretty damn strong. If you don’t have one of the top-end race helmets (Arai RX-7, Shoei X-11, etc.), you’ll find that if you turn your head away from straight, the poor side-ways aerodynamics suddenly make you feel like somebody’s trying to twist your head off. Now imagine what it’s like to pop up from a tuck at the end of a 200mph straight
June 16, 2009 at 7:49 am #19772BenParticipantCongrats!
Yeah wind resistance really does slow you down for sure. Although my bike is very un-aerodynamic with its luggage on the back, so it’s always slow
Ben
June 16, 2009 at 8:28 am #19777RedFireBirdParticipantfirst of all, your bike does not need anything above 87 octane, and paying for higher octane is a waste of money. even my bike recommends 87.
keep hydrated, my local walmart sells 32 OZ powerades for 80 cents, i go through two a day plus all the water i drink as well.
rear brake is a great thing to use in low speed cornering, but it isn’t absolutely necessary. proper balance, countersteering, and practice are the main things you need for low speed stability. rear brake will help, but don’t RELY upon it for stability.
outside – inside – outside is a RACING LINE. it is the theoretical fastest line through a corner. on public roads, if you apex every corner you will be hanging into the other lane, hit an oncoming car, and likely die. DO NOT DO THIS. while cornering, always leave PLENTY of room between your head and the car that will be coming in the opposite lane.
WEIGHTING THE PEGS DOES NOT STEER A MOTORCYCLE. countersteer is the principle method of steering past 15-20 mph. weighting the pegs and leaning off obviously will throw off weight balance, but weight balance is a very, VERY slow method of steering a bike, and if you don’t understand this, you will likely understeer into something and crash eventually. STEER WITH THE HANDLEBARS, LEAN IN THE DIRECTION YOU WANT TO TURN, AND WEIGHTING THE PEGS BE DAMNED.
as far as riding posture goes, you shoud be supporting your weight with your back muscles, not your arms. a full race tuck is not proper street riding technique. i can understand doing it in long distance interstate riding, as i’ve done it before when doing 80-85 mph for extended periods of time, but you should be staying rather upright during normal street riding. you should NEVER rely on wind resistance for slowing your bike. front brake is what you should be using, as well as drag from your motor’s compression.
it’s funny you should talk about about ‘poor sidways aerodynamics’, seriously, you really don’t know what you’re talking about. you won’t ever have any issue of head shake at legal speeds, much less 100 mph range speeds, with a normal full face helmet.
sorry to be rude, but i hope you’ve learned something here. be safe and ride smart.
June 16, 2009 at 12:08 pm #19785eternal05ParticipantIn addition to being the standard mantra of the “race” line, outside-inside-outside is basic MSF BRC-recommended street cornering procedure. If you don’t believe the MSF, you can consult any of the standard street riding literature for further proof of its legitimacy.
The “apex” of a cornering arc is the point at which you are closest to the inside of the turn, and does not have to be at the very limit of your lane, nor should it. Leaving your lane in any way, shape, or form is not a requirement of this basic cornering technique. Starting from the outside puts you at a point in the road that gives you maximum visibility around the bend, as well as makes you most visible to oncoming traffic.
I don’t think anybody here so much as suggested using wind resistance as a brake replacement. Not sure where that came from.
Finally, I’m referring to the poor aerodynamics of a helmet turned perpendicularly to the direction of travel. I’m not referring to “head shake” when the helmet is facing forward. I wouldn’t argue this point as it’s a well-accepted and obvious fact of life on the road.
Rudeness is never warranted, especially not when you’ve misinterpreted that to which you are responding. It’s precisely the absence of rudeness and hostility that makes this community great. Don’t mess that up.
June 16, 2009 at 1:21 pm #19788Clay DowlingParticipantWind resistance from your body is a lot more powerful that seems reasonable, but it’s definitely there.
A friend rides a vstar 250, and loved the mileage. Didn’t love the strain at highway speeds, so he put a small windshield on it, maybe twice the size of a flyscreen, and saw a 10mpg improvement in his fuel economy.
June 16, 2009 at 3:26 pm #19795eonParticipantGlad you are having fun. Don’t stop reading books on how you are supposed to be doing all this. This is the time you will pick up bad habits that will be hard to get rid of later on.
Practice late apexing as your standard way of cornering.
Set your entry speed slow enough so that you are gradually rolling on the throttle through the corner. You will take the corner smoothly and safely. This all takes practice and I was all over the place in the beginning. It gets easier though!I’m not sure why you are on the rear brake when turning into side streets. That seems unnecessary to me. Parking lots and U-turns yes, but for side streets? Maybe taking a wider line would let you take it a little bit faster and give you more visibility?
Oh, and there was something else I’ve been meaning to say. I think it was you who mentioned the importance of making eye contact with car drivers at intersections. Well, from everything I have read this is a very unreliable method. Drivers can look right at you but not ‘see’ you. I know this happened to me once when I was driving a Chevy Blazer!!! It’s best to ride based on what they actually do, not what you think they will do.
Have fun and be safe
eonJune 16, 2009 at 4:09 pm #19796SafetyFirstParticipantThanks for the replies guys.
Am I going to lose sleep over the, what, quarter extra I spent on 92 octane? Probably not. If I truly pi$$ed it away, then I guess that’s one less gumball I can buy from the gumball machine.
I never said that I was using body wind drag for braking. What I was saying is… when approaching a potential ‘trouble’ spot, like an intersection above 55, going standard has two benefits. One, all my training has been in standard position, so I’m ready to react better. Two, it does cut down the speed a little from the get-go without doing anything other than sitting upright. Don’t worry, I haven’t forgotten what that little lever above the throttle is for.
I’m going to stop by the library today and give the books I read before I took MSF and started riding make more sense now/
June 16, 2009 at 8:43 pm #19809SantaCruzRiderParticipantYou’re right about the use of the standard position when approaching intersections — it improves both your ability to see and to be seen by other vehicles. As for the windage, I suspect that it has about as much effect as the slight lift on the throttle that comes from raising up.
With the braking into turns issue, I believe that the best approach (especially for beginners) is to try to always use both brakes. This gets you into a habit that is essential and needs to become automatic for dealing with emergencies. If you are used to only using one brake in 90% of situations, you’ll do the same thing in a panic stop and you increase both your stopping distance and your chance of locking up. I’m not arguing against using only the rear brake when you are crawling through a parking lot, but for most street riding, I think it’s important to start the habit of both brakes all the time.
Another small point, if you find that you are doing lots of late breaking into turns, it’s probably a sign that you’re coming in too hot and you’re in too high a gear.
As for steering with pegs — of course you can. If the bike is light enough, you can steer all day by leaning the bike — whether that means you’re shifting weight to the inside peg or just leaning and feeling greater weight on that peg. The lean is what turns the bike. Counter steering gets you there faster, but it essentially accomplishes the same thing by steering the front wheel to the outside of the intended turn and forcing the bike to lean. But others are right about the fact that you should focus on countersteering — especially as speed increases.
Lastly, don’t get beat up about the 92 octane. Consider it a small donation to ensure the survival of the oil companies that are feeling pinched by having to pay out mega bonuses to their execs. Exxon thanks you.
June 16, 2009 at 11:47 pm #19816MunchParticipantOk….I can see one point that can be missed. In a right turn (or left) at slower speeds…mid turn the cager in front of you decides to slow or stop, yes this is where the rear braking pays off. Touch that front brake too hard and you may find yourself flintstoning past the cager and quick. It’s all situational and it sounds like you found one.
June 17, 2009 at 1:58 am #19820gsmurfetteParticipantI agree with SantaCruzRider on the front and rear braking. I’ve got almost 1000 miles under my tires, and I make sure that I use both brakes so it’s ingrained into my brain. I don’t want to be in an emergency situation and not be able to stop, and not have anywhere to really go around (swerving). Sounds like you’re doing great. I read up on things as much as I can, as with my job, I learn something new everyday, and will for the rest of my life. The day I don’t is the day I quit.
June 17, 2009 at 9:13 am #19841RedFireBirdParticipantquote: “The lean is what turns the bike. Counter steering gets you there faster”
no. if you believe that body lean and weighting the pegs is any proper way to turn a motorcycle, kieth code has a ninja 600 with welded handlebars for you to prove your point with.
http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-bs-machine.php
the no BS bike, properly named.
this is a common misconception that all riders should be made aware of. steer with the bars, lean to keep your center of gravity low, and weighting pegs is not proper riding technique outside of low speed counterleaning a bike with an upright riding position, as it’s nowhere near as easy to do with bent legs on a sport bike.
June 17, 2009 at 12:49 pm #19844Clay DowlingParticipantThe countersteering is a by-product of the lean. If you lean to the left you’re generally pushing your left arm out just a little farther, giving you the appropriate counter steer to make your turn. It’s identical to how a bicycle works if you’re riding fast enough. I like to ride from 14-20mph on my bike, and I use an identical technique.
I also live in the plains. We get some impressive cross winds, and I have to lean the bike a few degrees to the side just to keep from getting blown over. I can hold a straight line this way no problem.
June 17, 2009 at 5:48 pm #19854japac1ParticipantJust my $0.02
I would understand Counter-steering and not rely on body english. Leaning your weight on the pegs is not going to get you out of that emergency swerve.
I agree with others about rear brake trailing in slow speed manuevers, however, like others have said, and which I always do – is to brake with both brakes – all the time. A good habit, you’ll want perfected when you need them.
I also corner using the “delayed apex” route. I’ve found it very helpful to see a little further around those blind curves, and it you get into the corner too hot, you’re already on a good exit line, less likely to enter the other lane or fly off a cliff!!
Good luck to your continued riding!!
June 17, 2009 at 7:56 pm #19861zeppelinfromledParticipantI agree with Elwood. If one could not steer with the pegs (and other body aspects), then how could anyone steer at all with no hands? Saying that you can steer without your hands and that you can steer without moving the handlebars are not the same statement though. Now, I use countersteering (the traditional way), but I’m just debating whether or not steering can be accomplished without doing it with the hands – and it can.
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