looking for first bike...fuel injected?
Hi All,
looking for first motorcycle. recently finished MSF class and after reading the helpful materials on this site i am looking for something under 500cc. i am very interested in getting a fuel injected bike because i live two miles from work, in the midwest, and want to ride it to work as much as i can. i dont really want to spend more time warming up the bike than driving! any suggestions? is fuel injected worth looking for?
thanks for the help!
J.H.
PS- i have to ride 2 miles on a 55mph 2 lane highway with no shoulder or else i would be taking my bicycle! :-)
Some of the answer will be
Some of the answer will be cost driven. In general, I probably would vote for the FI machines. But, carbureted bikes can open doors to some fine machines, a few years older often, but great values.
2006 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
Sales, Peterson's North Miami Store
Normally I would jump at
Normally I would jump at saying go for the FI . However one concern I would have with what you said.
"i don't really want to spend more time warming up the bike than driving!"
It is a rare point brought up here in BBM, but one that comes to mind that I feel bares saying. If your that much of a hurry.... stick with the car. In the time it would take a carb'd bike to warm up, allows for you to get in the mindset of what you are fixing to do. Also gives you time to do a pre ride check each time. Slow down a touch and get your mind right, get your mind in the ride and the attention it needs. Jumping on and going will leave you wondering if you remembered all that you needed for work/school/play etc. instead of focusing on that car to your left that might not see you. Or getting mentally awake enough for your motor skills to do a full systems check.
****Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy Shit....What a ride!!!"****
thank you for your concern, i
thank you for your concern, i was asking about the practicality of driving a carb'd bike vs a fuel injected. i took the MSF class, am a very good driver (used to do deliveries for a living, no tickets/crashes) and after reading much materials online and on this site i am fully focused on riding properly.
thanks for your help!
J.H.
Get a bicycle
Since it sound like you're in a hurry, you could probably jump on a bicycle and ride to work in the same that it takes you to put your gear on and take it off at work.
Personally, I've never had an FI bike, so maybe I just don't know what I'm missing. But still, I never wait for it to warm up. Even on mornings in the mid-30s, I push the bike out of the garage, start her up with a touch of choke, put on my helmet, get my gloves on, hop on the bike, check the gauges, kickstand up and cruise down the road. In a block or two the choke goes off and you're on your way. Seems like a non-issue to me.
fuel injected
thanks for your help, i am interested in a motorcycle because i have to ride 2 miles on a 2 lane highway with no shoulder and lots of semis going 55-60mp.
thanks for the info on warming up, the reason i asked is because i have read many places online that say it takes 5-10 minutes to warm up a carb bike, not ever having a motorcycle before i was not sure
thanks!
J.H.
Hey now, I think you guys are
Hey now, I think you guys are being a little hard on the new guy. As someone who also has a 2 mile commute he has my sympathy. I still ride to work but sometimes I wonder why as I have to pay for parking and by the time I get my gear on/off I don't save much in time. Still, without that little blast it would be weekends only for me.
I don't think the carb thing is an issue either. I've driven plenty of cars without babying them. You just let the choke out after a minute or so. No problems.
Not many choices in the US
Not many choices in the US for sub 500cc EFI bikes, and those there are are new models which means limited availability on the used market. However the Suzuki TU250x and Yamaha WR250r/x are both nice bikes and excellent for beginners.
I have a similar problem and understand your issue. However for a first bike I don't think I would limit my choice to FI bikes only unless I was intent on buying new. A good used bike is much less expensive and if you decide to sell it for something different after a short time you will loose little.
Craig
Munch makes a good point
If you go get a carbed bike, just use the warm-up period to check everything over. I do on my bike (Buell Blast)...make sure the lights and signals work, check the clutch, look for oil leaks, ensure my gear is fastened properly, etc.
A veteran racer (I forget who) once wrote in a "why we ride" piece that for him, the equipment (bike+gear) check also serves the purpose of reminding him how serious riding a motorcycle is, and helps put him in the proper frame of mind for a safe ride. I always liked that.
thanks for the help!
thanks for the helpful comments!
i am really leaning toward the suzuki tu250 but will hit up craigslist a lot before my final decision!
Not sure where the 5-10 minute quotes came from..
... but even here in Colorado winter, with altitude as a factor as well as the cold. I would say 3-5 is more accurate, at least for my bike. As others have already mentioned, by the time I check my bike over and get geared up the bike is ready to go when I am. I haven't found myself sitting around thinking "Damn I wish this thing would warm up faster," or thinking .. "Man.. I absolutely have to have FI on my next bike." I would just as likely buy one with FI as I would without it if the bike was what I wanted.
I suppose if maybe I was regularly riding from Kansas City (740 feet) to say Breckenridge (9,600 feet) I might think otherwise, but it really has been a non-issue so far.
If you ride like there's no tomorrow, there won't be. ~Author Unknown
thanks!
what do you ride? i have been told by people i work with and different forums online and salespeople that some small bikes (ninja250, rebel, gz250) sometimes take longer tan 5 minutes to warm up. thanks for your advice!
J.H.
I have heard the Rebels can be a little cold blooded...
... and that they can be a little rough at first. Not that they require more than 5 minutes with the choke open per se, but that they can still run a little rough at stops etc. for the first minute or two. I have never owned one, so not sure how true or not that is.
I own a Triumph Bonneville. I find with that bike that generally speaking, by the time I have given it a once over, put my jacket, helmet and gloves on, I push in the choke and its idling smooth and ready to go. As I said, generally 3-5 minutes depending on how long it has been sitting and how cold.
There was only one brief period in which I found the carbs to be a pain. The bike is an '07 and the neutral switch went out on it in December. Due to the switch going out if you dropped the stand it would cut the engine even when in neutral. Apparently, at least on the Triumphs, the Neutral Switch and the side stand work together. Maybe thats true of all bikes, I don't know as this is my first one. But if the switch doesn't tell the side stand it is in neutral it assumes it is in gear even if it really isn't.
So, the only way to warm it up before heading out was to pull up the stand and actually sit on it for 3-5 minutes while it was warming up. It took me like 2 weeks to get the switch replaced, so it was really only a minor inconvenience, but to correct my earlier statement, I guess there was a 2 week period where maybe FI would have been handy :)
On the bright side, I purchased it used from a dealer and bought the extended warranty. That covered the parts and labor for the switch :)
If you ride like there's no tomorrow, there won't be. ~Author Unknown
I never warm my bike up...
What i do: put my helmet and jacket on, and then boots and gloves. Then i get on the bike, put the choke on and start it. I give it enough time to idle properly (5-10 seconds), and then choke off and ride. I have been told by a lot of people that puts less wear on the engine than does the 5-minute idle period, and it gets me going a lot quicker.
I think that a carburated bike is fine for most people. The big thing for FI is change in altitude, which it doesnt sound like you will be doing much of. I've not ridden many FI bikes, all of mine have been carby's, and I have honestly not had much of a problem. The only time i wished for FI was when i was riding to another state, that had a MUCH different altitude (eg 2000 feet). I got to my sisters' house, got off the throttle, and it died instantly. In the change of altitude, It had been running waaay to rich and fouled the plug...not too bad; a new plug, jet readjustment and a bottle of carb cleaner did the trick.
More pluses for FI
Possibly moot points, definitely not deal breakers but worthy of mention;
No fuel tap required ...ever pulled out into traffic only to realize you forgot to turn on the fuel?
More than just altitude sensitive ...I've owned several carb bikes that religiously required needle position adjustments seasonally, spring, summer and fall, admittedly these were all competition 2 strokes.
Rev limiting ...it's much harder to blow up an engine that shuts down at the manufacturers prescribed red line, or when it finds itself running up-side down.
I've experienced both of these conditions :/
Go easy on the cold start and go: The greatest danger from not warming up a 4 stroke engine and then operating it very, very hard is to the valves, tappets piston and rings. If it uses oil pressure dependent bottom end bearings, the oil needs to achieve a low enough viscosity or some babbitt bearing damage is inevitable. 2 stroke engines are far less affected by the cold start, with the biggest danger being, catching a ring on the edge of a scavenging port, 2 strokes all have roller bearing crank and con rods.
One of my best friends whose
One of my best friends whose been riding for forever told me if I could afford a FI get one. He said they are smoother- esp for a beginner rider.
I am not convinced of that- my only experiance is I have FI and my roommates is carbed. I do personally think mine runs smoother- and it certianly sounds smoother... I haven't ridden her's enough to really give a competent comparison- others here might be able to better speak to that.
Dancing, playing with my pony and playing with my lady.
Work hard, play hard
Life is sweet... very sweet.
From my own experience...
... comparing Apples to Apples. When I purchased my Bonnie I took one of the '09's, which are Fuel Injected for a test ride after I took the '07 I purchased out. I just wanted to see what the differences between the two were and if there was anything there that made me want to buy new vs. used. Honestly I really didn't notice much of a difference between the two one way or the other. But being a taller rider the '07 had a taller seat hight than the '09 models, with the exception of the top of the line T-100, so that was a plus for the '07. The '07 only had 2,300 miles on it and was significantly cheaper, so for me it was an easy choice.
But, long story short, I really didn't notice any significant difference in how smooth one was over the other, and really no difference in how they sounded. If I could have purchased the '09 T-100 for the same price, or even within $500 I probably would have gone with the FI '09. But with a difference of a couple thousand plus, it was an easy choice to go with the carb'ed '07.
But that is the closest to a direct comparison between mostly identical models I can offer.
If you ride like there's no tomorrow, there won't be. ~Author Unknown
maybe apples to lemons
Took a look at the Triumph EFI offering after reading your ride un-impression, is it possible performance was not the primary design criteria? ...brilliant marketing concept; manufacture an EFI unit that squeezes out Euro III emission standards and looks like a carb. Just, why did they make that look like a CV carb??? I'd spot that a mile away, classic Triumphs never had CV carbs , so why didn't they spend your money to make it look like an Amal Mk1 ? P.S. not trying to flame the brand, I know how passionate you guys can be over the T120 look ;)
"Modern Classic vs. Classic" I am guessing..
I am sure the idea was to maintain the look of the Hinkley "Modern Classics" which have CV carbs rather than go even more retro to the Meridian T-120. I am not a Triumph historian by any stretch of the imagination so don't quote me on this.. but when John Bloor resurrected the Bonneville in 2001 didn't they always use CV carbs?
I know there are folks who are crazy passionate about the T-120 and may have liked to have seen that, but I can understand the logic of wanting to maintain the consistency of the Hinkley line, particularly since the Amal didn't seem to have the best of reputations. I am no expert on carbs by any stretch either, but from owners of Merdian bikes, I garner that there were many issues with construction quality and the like with the Amal Mk I.
I recall reading a review of the Kawasaki W650 awhile ago as I always like the looks of those as well. The review mentioned that perhaps the Kawasaki was working harder to make the W650 look like a '69 Bonnie than the Triumph Hinkley models. But even that review applauded Kawasaki for not having the "dreaded Amal carburetor" and instead using CV carbs.
From Triumph's standpoint of EFI in general are better fuel economy, automatic mixture adjustment, better performance, longer engine life.
I am sure that is all true, to what degree I don't know. The better performance claim sounds like some of the computer overlockers who go on about 10% improvements in performance as though the average user would ever recognize that without benchmarking tools.
Maybe if you are the type of rider who really rings the snot out of every last ounce of performance you might notice. I am guessing for the average rider (like myself) , the performance difference is trivial.
In any case, I don't have an EFI bike, so what they decided to hide the EFI unit in isn't of much concern to me .. at least not until I decide to buy something else :)
If you ride like there's no tomorrow, there won't be. ~Author Unknown
ah yes, those good ol' days
Personally I like the pre unit 1940's 3H model Speed Twin.
In 2001 Triumph would have to equip with CV carbs to meet the emission standards of the time, so now I understand; they are trying to preserve the look of a 9 year old bike that was patterned to look like a 30 year old bike. BTW, improved low through mid-range power and precise throttle control is where EFI really shines, not full throttle.
Not much difference
I've had bikes with carbs and with EFI.
The warm-up is a non-issue for me as I would simply start the bike with choke full-out, immediately push it about half-way in (until revs just start to drop a little), put my gloves on, check the lights and then take-off. A mile or so down the road (depending on outside temperature), I'd push the choke all the way in and be done with it. Not a problem.
A drawback with EFI though (which is apparently quite common) is that when "coasting" (in gear), they can have an on/off feeling from the throttle (a.k.a. surging). This is difficult to describe, but it can be uncomfortable and annoying. Bikes with carbs don't have this surging.
EFI bikes are definitely more fuel efficient though and it's only a matter of time before carbs are phased-out completely on motorcycles due to ever more stringent air quality laws which carbureter fuelled engines will be unable to meet. In fact on the pre-EFI (carburetted) Bonnevilles, Triumph had to graft on secondary air injection in order to meet pollution regulations.
True about that..
"In fact on the pre-EFI (carburetted) Bonnevilles, Triumph had to graft on secondary air injection in order to meet pollution regulations."
Seems to be a popular mod to do the "airboxectomy" and remove it or at least remove the rubber intake snorkel on the air filter lid. I think one county in Arizona is the only place in the country to actually require Motorcycle Emissions Testing and I am not even sure that is still true. California I think had testing at one time and dropped it?
I haven't done anything with mine, I have heard pros and cons and not sure it is the best idea for the type of riding I mostly do.. but thats another topic from this :)
If you ride like there's no tomorrow, there won't be. ~Author Unknown
carbed bikes
Some carbureted bikes are more “cold blooded” than others due to lean factory jetting for emission reasons. GS500 is one example. My ’01 is not as bad as what owners of older models (slightly different carburetor design) describe, but even with temp in the high 50s, the engine would spit and buck at low rpm (not pretty) if you don’t let it warm up for a few minutes. Re-jetting the pilot jet to make it richer would cure this problem; I haven’t bothered w/ rejetting.
During my weekend rides I often go from sea level to close to 4,000 ft of elevation. No problem felt with my 2 carbureted bikes. I thought maybe you’d start to feel the power difference in a carbureted bike with something like 6,000 ft of elevation change. I ride with ambient temp from the 40s to over 100F and haven’t had the need to make any adjustment to the carburetors in my bikes.
FI is nice, but I wouldn’t hesitate buying a good carbureted bike.