suggestions please....
Hello fellow riders,
I just received my endorsement last week and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on the first few weeks of safe riding.
Should I be heading to the nearest shopping mall (after hours) , parking lots, etc. or should I go around the neighborhood? I have a 2007 Triumph Bonneville T-100, and I find it a BiG difference from the 250 Honda Rebel I was using in MSF class. Would love to hear from anyone with tips or ideas. Thanks in advance!
I would say you want to do as
I would say you want to do as much parking lot practice as you can. You want the controls to be 2nd nature to you before you have to start worrying about traffic. Practice all your slow speed maneuvers, starts, stops etc. It's a lot safer to get the mistakes out of the way in a parking lot than when there is a car on your ass. Then, light traffic as much as you can while you start learning how to read traffic, best lane position etc. In the first few weeks it can be a bit overwhelming but you learn quickly.
Good luck and be safe.
You rock eon! Thanks for
You rock eon! Thanks for the quick response. I had a fellow co-worker who laughed when I told him that I was planning to practice in an empty parking lot- his response was: "why did you bother buying a bike?!" He suggested instead that I just go along the side roads in the early mornings. I'm glad that your suggestion confirmed what I considered to be first priority. Thanks again I really appreciate it :-)
jayspot
I bought the Sporty I learned
I bought the Sporty I learned on 3 weeks before my class, and ordered "Ride Like a Pro" (#5) . . . (And I did in fact NOT get on that new bike till AFTER the class)
I had no choice but to ride to the parking lots on some pretty busy streets. .just where i live. But to parking lots I went, and after "rush hour" every time. . . . . . . . the fact is until control inputs are automatic and your eyes "lift" off of the controls and can "see" traffic . . .parking lots are where a smart man is "working"! Anyone who tells you NOT to 'waste time with PLP" doeskin know shit. PLP is the place muscle memory is developed on the clutch and brakes . . .
THEN
Start very early on a Sunday morning ride . .then add Sunday afternoon .. then longer Sunday rides, more challenging . .then add Saturday . .then when ready . .add weekday traffic. Take one chalnge, one step at a time.
2006 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
Sales, Peterson's North Miami Store
YES
As everybody's said, parking lot practice is not something for beginners, nor is it something to laugh at. It is a MUST. Do it, and don't be ashamed :)
It is recommended that even
It is recommended that even experienced riders head to the parking lot whenever they get a new bike. Every bike handles slightly differently so you need to learn the intricacies of each in a safe environment. Riding in the street (even quiet ones) has its own set of dangers and things to learn. Best to eliminate them while you focus on what you need to learn first.
Oh and I would practice 90' turns from a stop. i've read of a few people dropping their bikes at right hand turns at a stop sign. Lot's of reasons for it but having cars around when you are not confident in your ability certainly factors into it.
Learn to ignore the advice of others where their ego comes into play. Whether it is around the size of your engine, your brightly colored clothes, your full face helmet, how fast you ride. Do whatever you are comfortable with and ignore the others. As you start to meet other riders you will quickly learn a large percentage of folks are not interested in learning how to be safe and skillful. That's their choice and I do not try to force my choices onto them, but I ignore any "advice" they may give me.
And thanks for the kind words but I just happened to be the first one along.
Right On...
...about practicing the 90-degree turns from a stop. The MSF course (or at least the one I took) didn't really get into those.
I found when I first started out in the real world (i.e. not the MSF parking lot) that I was swinging WAY wider than I should be on those and it really scared me. But a little practice at a local church's parking lot did the trick.
And to Eon and others' point...I too continue to stop by the lot if I happen to be in that area, and spend maybe 5-10 minutes seeing how tight I can circle, how fast I can stop short of lockup etc. Takes only a few mintues in grand scheme of a ride, and seems to be cheap insurance.
I've heard stories of people going in the off-hours to the MSF course parking lot at the local community college to practice, only to find local motorcycle cops there...for the same reason. The fact that the pros feel there's a continuing need to practice this stuff should tell us something.
some great advice!
I am sooooo glad I found this web site. It's comforting to know that others are feeling the same angst as me being a new rider.
I plan to map out my neighborhood and ride during light traffic and hopefully this weekend head out early in the morning to a nearby parking lot and practice what I've learned in class. I appreciate you all taking the time for the helpful advice :-)
jayspot
I have a Bonneville as well..
... and what you are describing is exactly what I started doing. Mapping out some neighborhood rides in light traffic. First to a local elementary school lot to practice, then to a High School further away to practice, then some destinations around the neighborhood and have been spreading out from there.
But I like to practice in parking lots, particularly on the weekends. You can usually find an empty lot around your neighborhood on the weekends. High Schools, many churches are actually empty on Saturday. Found a closed down grocery store with a nice lot.
I picked up some of those practice cones at a local sporting goods store. You can find the BRC course layouts, such as the limited space maneuvering exercise, online. Here and elsewhere.
http://www.daytonamotorcycletraining.com/range-layout-exercises.htm
These are the cones I picked up...
http://www.amazon.com/Nike-10-Pack-Training-Cones-Red/dp/B000RNQBHQ
One of the High Schools and the Community College near my home are used for the BRC course, so they both have the painted outlines already in place.
If you ride like there's no tomorrow, there won't be. ~Author Unknown
what kind of Bonnie do you own?...
Hey Sean,
Is this your first bike? If it is, how do you find it as a beginner's bike? Some great advice from you and other riders, thanks again!
jayspot
It is my first bike...
... and is a mostly stock '07 Bonnie. I purchased it used with about 2300 miles on it. I added a center stand, some luggage spools and couple small things, but not much.
I find it a great beginner bike. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one. My wife went the cruiser route and picked her bike about 1 month before I did. I just really never felt all that comfortable on her bike. I didn't like the riding position etc. I really prefer sitting on the bike rather than in the bike.
The dealership set me up on a test drive route. I felt immediately comfortable with the Bonnie, much more so than I had on my wife's bike. It was a real confidence booster.
I got turned on to the Bonnie after reading a review on Webbikeworld by an MSF rider coach by the name of Ken Stamp. He was going on about how the Bonnie was the easiest bike to ride he had ever ridden and went on about how he wouldn't hesitate to recommend them as a first bike. I had to try it for myself and glad that I did. It handles well, does exactly what is expected when you expect it, no surprises. It is a very user friendly bike.
If you ride like there's no tomorrow, there won't be. ~Author Unknown
hey, i read that article too!
hey, i read that article too! I've always wanted a classic looking bike and I was going to buy the Suzuki TU 250 until I checked craigslist and got a great deal on a Bonneville. It too had just under 3000 miles and in great condition. I still haven't taken it out on a major street, just the side streets. I really don't want to drop it, so I'm thinking of buying a cheap 1975-1980 Suzuki GS 500 to practice on. How long have you been riding?.... and any chance you can post a picture of your Bonnie?... safe riding Sean!
jayspot
Not been riding long...
... I took the MSF course at the end of September and purchased my bike end of November (November 30th). My wife took the course with me and she purchased her bike in October, so I rode it once or twice before buying my own, but really I probably had maybe 10 miles outside of the MSF course at the time I purchased it.
I really wanted a classic bike as well or in this case a "modern classic" as Triumph calls them. Probably in a large part due to the fact I spent some years living in Ireland (outside of Dublin) and Triumph was what I was familiar with.
I haven't had it out on the highway yet, Santa Fe is the closest I have come to highway riding with a span that is 55MPH. I had it up to 60'ish there, but mostly the riding I have been doing is on roads with 45MPH limits.
The bike has had 258 miles put on it since I purchased it. My wife put on about 30 of those taking it for a ride. Sooo.... I guess my experience outside of the MSF amounts to about 2 months and 228 miles.
The biggest problem I have been having is due to the fact I need to wear glasses. Contacts drive me nuts after about 2 hours max. I have been having issues with the glasses fogging up at lights. I have tried Cat Crap, Fogtech and a few other products, and at best the minimize the fogging. I have finally found that the only thing that seems to work is putting a breath box in the helmet.
I would be happy to post a picture. I keep meaning to take one. I always forget to put the camera in my pocket before heading out. I will try to remember to do that this weekend.
If you ride like there's no tomorrow, there won't be. ~Author Unknown
I'm going to have the same
I'm going to have the same problems with vision when I start night riding. I don't wear contacts, hate them. Hopefully a helmet company can make shields that have prescription lenses built in..... Look forward to seeing the pictures Sean!
jayspot
That would be nice...
"hopefully a helmet company can make shields that have prescription lenses built in"
I doubt that we will see that in the near future. but the Pinlock type system may be the way they can go about doing that. I have kind of gotten used to the air mask. At first I found it distracting, but the more I use it the more I get used to wearing it.
I currently only have a generic one that is made for the HJC helmets as they didn't have one for the Shoei RF1100 at the time. It is OK, but it bunches up a little at times since uses velcro to attach to the cheek pads. Shoei claims they have the accessories for the RF-1100 now, but you have to call them. I will probably do that. Another option that looks nice, and much more flexible at least than the HJC is the Respro Foggy Mask http://www.respro.com/products/urban-commuting/motorcycling/foggy_mask/
I will get some photos posted this weekend if I can.
If you ride like there's no tomorrow, there won't be. ~Author Unknown
Clarity DeFog
I recently purchased an Arai helmet and the thing is a fog machine. Pisses me off as it is dangerously bad. I don't understand why Scorpion can make fog free helmets and others cannot in helmets that cost 3 to 4 times as much.
Anyway I recently made my first purchase of an anti-fogging product and I went for Clarity DeFog as reviewed in webbikeworld. They seemed to like it and so far I have been very happy with it. Might be worth a try if you are desperate. Not sure how it compares to the other products out there.
The dirty little secret of fog free helmets..
From some reading I had done there is a bit of a "problem" with the "fog free" visors. Problem may not be a good word, but lets say marketing hype. The fog free coating only lasts about 6 months and then you have to treat them like any other visor. But the trouble is that sometimes the fact that they were factory treated makes them harder to deal with than those that were never treated. The other option is to replace the visor and deal with it in another 6 months. Webbike world did a little experimenting with that in one of their articles. A lot of the manufacturers decided not to go that route since *hopefully* you will have your helmet 4-5 years. I guess they figure it is better to not treat it rather than have a fog free helmet for 6 months that may be harder to deal with for the next 3.5-4.5.
My first helmet was a KBC VR-2R. That had a fog free visor, which admittedly never fogged, but I only owned it a couple months. It also had no real ventilation to speak of. As soon as I would stop moving my glasses would fog up like I walked into a steam room. The Shoei RF-1100 has 6 vents on the top, the front vent, and a visor mode that actually pushes the bottom front of the visor away from the gasket to allow air flow without actually raising it up. It seems to vent really well.
Arai, Shoei, KBC and a couple others can use the Pinlock System. That actually works very well other with a couple of caveats. There is a little edge around the visor not covered so it can be slightly distracting until you get used to it, and the inserts are softer so can scratch more easily than the visor itself. But it does keep it fog free.
I have tried Cat Crap (also based on a webbikeworld review) and the Clarity DeFog. Both seem to work well on visors, neither seem great on my glasses. Clarity DeFog works the better of the two. But I think the issue may be the coatings on the glasses. The anti-glare, UV, scratch resistant.. something. It just seems like it only minimizes the effect.
The issue that I have with my glasses is warm air gets up behind them causing them to fog really bad at stops, and also since it is behind the glasses it takes a little while to clear. I have found the air mask seems to work well at controlling this. It goes up over the nose and has a metal pinch strip like a surgical mast. It forces my breath down and out the bottom of the mask so it can't get up under the glasses.
Until I can find a product that really keeps the back of my glasses clear, I think the air mask is going to be permanent part of my helmet.
If you ride like there's no tomorrow, there won't be. ~Author Unknown
I had a thread just like this
I had a thread just like this "getting aclimated" and was given some great advice here!
Roommate and I still do a lot of parking lot practice- and rarely do we go straight out to the streets- usually we go through the condo for a 'warm up' lap... practice braking right and left hand turns- then we hit the streets.
Someone also said they had a friend/family member follow them around. My first trip out I was followed - horribly embarrassing- I was so excited to take my bike to get fuel (a whole 1/2 mile down a small two lane road- moderately travelled- one left turn and then a reallly back road- and one right turn)
got there safely and effectively- and then couldn't get the fuel tank opened. MORTIFIED! lol
Since then I had one or two more main trips where I was followed- one big one to get inspected and that was on a major through way through town) HA HA about a 10 mile trip- got there safe and sound and then almost dropped her when I didn't get the kickstand down and I thought I had. HA.
It doesn't change anything but it certainly gives you more confidence- and if its someone who rides they can give you pointers for when you get back.
Then keep practicing in the parking lot- my neighbor w/ a duc still pokes fun of me for still practicing- but to me its safer and I feel more comfortable about it- always trying to improve my skills. =)
Good luck!
Dancing, playing with my pony and playing with my lady.
Work hard, play hard
Life is sweet... very sweet.
hilarious!
Great idea with someone following you, but with my luck they'd probably end up hitting me! Plan to map out some local parking lots. I live near Boeing Field (Everett), so hopefully I can use their lot.... thanks for the ideas :-)
jayspot
Couple of recommendations...
Definately find a spot and practice in a parking. Practice braking, clutch control, 90 degree turns, and the dreaded box (which officially I'm not supposed to call it that ;-)). Many new riders struggle with 90 degree turns from a stop, especially those to the right as they are tighter. You can always use painted lines if they already exist for parking. For cones, buy tennis balls and cut them in half.
If you can find a lot with the MSF lines already painted, continue to use the box for the BRC and not the ERC (my opinion only). The ERC box is quite a bit larger. The cops use a box that's roughly half the size of the BRC, and a really good rider can do it even tighter than that...It's a GREAT exercise to develop overall control.
If anyone needs the dimensions of any of the exercises, drop me a line and I'll help you out.
Allen Dye
MSF Rider Coach
Track Day Instructor
Ironbutt Rally Finisher '03-'05
pretty decent write up about
pretty decent write up about the box.... =)
http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/msf-motorcycle-safety-foundation/358915...
Dancing, playing with my pony and playing with my lady.
Work hard, play hard
Life is sweet... very sweet.
It is a good write up about
It is a good write up about the box. Something to remember; there is a another drill with big "S" turns. Few people have trouble with this drill...interestingly enough, it's the same dimensions required to complete the u-turns in the box..;-)
Allen Dye
MSF Rider Coach
Track Day Instructor
Ironbutt Rally Finisher '03-'05
I didn't have any parking
I didn't have any parking lots close to me after I took the MSF class but I do live in a quiet neighborhood. For about the first 6 weeks after the MSF course, all I did was ride up and down the street. Stop, go, shift, left turn, right turn, brake and so on. After about 6 week I felt comfortable taking the bike out into light traffic. I still remember the first time I hit 40mph!
The one thing I tell all my friends is to go soon and go often. I've had friends that wait a few weeks after they have taken the MSF class and they begin to forget basic concepts. Good luck out there.
so much good info!
Already bought a small notebook that i will use to keep a record of different exercises I'll be working on. Reading, How to Ride a Motorcycle and already have Proficient Motorcycling, so I'm getting some good ideas on what to work on. Also going to pick up some cones from Big 5 sporting good store tomorrow. I dream and wake up with thoughts of riding my Bonnie every day - what's wrong with me?! Thanks again everyone, much appreciated.
jayspot
Cheap cones
I use tennis balls that are cut in half. ~$1 for a can of three at the Wal-mart, and 10min to cut them in half.
They are very forgiving if you hit them and if you destroy or lose one, no worries, they are super cheep.
great idea! I do have a few
great idea! I do have a few tennis balls lying around in the garage-will put them to use.
Thanks!
jayspot
Jay, the meetup group I ride
Jay, the meetup group I ride with is having a practice session in a few weeks time at Magnusson Park (just north of of UW in Seattle). Going to watch Ride Like a Pro and then go out and practice some. I've never watched that video but some of the folks on here swear by it. You would be more than welcome to come along.
http://www.meetup.com/bikers/calendar/12242084/
Thanks eon, I'm hoping I'll
Thanks eon, I'm hoping I'll have enough practice under my belt to be able to ride there. I ordered a portable trailer to tow my bike to certain locations where I can practice. Managed to ride to a nearby parking lot (school) on the weekend and did a few practice drills. Hopefully the trailer will arrive before the Magnusson Park get together.....
jayspot
What part of town you coming
What part of town you coming from? That general area is pretty quiet but it's hard to get there without going through a busy section. I live downtown (Belltown) so I very quickly adapted to riding in traffic, but since I have an automatic scooter I had it easy.
I wouldn't stress over trying to make this practice session, I would focus more on getting your own practice in. I'm not entirely sure how this big session will go as this will be my first time doing this. While I regularly stop by and do a 10 or 15 minute practice session, I might be bored with a large group practicing for a couple of hours. But I have to confess I am secretly looking forward to watching folks attempt the box. It will be interesting to see the skill levels on show.
If you live near Magnuson...
...definitely use it! It's a great parking lot for slow-speed practice, though the crappy quality of the pavement (lots of holes/deep cracks/really uneven seams) and its small-ish size start becoming a problem for faster, more complex drills.
As mentioned, however, it's great because it used to be used for MSF classes and has all the lines painted on it. In fact, its such a staple of my practice routine that its featured in a few upcoming videos. Definitely check it out if you live in the area.
I live at the border of
I live at the border of Lynnwood and Everett off 128th St. You're right, i'm going to have to pass on the Magnusson Park get together. Hoping to practice at a bigger lot this weekend (before Super Bowl game!). hey eon, what kind of scooter do you own?.. is that you and your scooter in the picture? If it is, you look like Batman!
jayspot
Yes, that is me on my Piaggio
Yes, that is me on my Piaggio MP3, 500cc version.
Picture was taken east of the Cascades at Wildhorse Wind Farm. Cool place to visit if you get a chance (you can read my report on that day here
I use "real" cones
And they're not much more expensive than tennis balls. You can get 100 for about $38, so they work out to $0.38 per cone instead of ~$0.20 per half tennis ball, but:
- they store more easily (they stack in a neat pile)
- they don't upset the bike should you ride over them
- I find them to be easier to work with
- you don't have to cut up tennis balls
http://www.amazon.com/World-Sport-Disc-Cone-Sets/dp/B002HTOIUK/
You can also buy them in smaller quantities (e.g. 25), but the unit cost goes up a bit (up to a whopping $0.12 per cone).
Those 90 degree turns from a
Those 90 degree turns from a stop are important. (-; Especially for us folks that start on heavy bikes. That was for a while one of the scariest things I did. I had to ride to parking lots, and I was making those turns into traffic way to wide . . hated that! Now I scrape pegs on those same turns right from a dead start. LoL Practice, practice, practice!
Most import thing for now, DO NOT over reach or get pressured into "over riding" your skill. Ride your own ride and learn one step at a time. Develop skill. To this day, I try to learn or improve just one thing every day i ride, and I am still learning a lot of that in parking lots when I can get time in one.
2006 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
Sales, Peterson's North Miami Store
yeah Crash has a great video
yeah Crash has a great video on that... I saw a drill on it and it didn't really sink in the pertenance of said drill till I watched his video...
I make sure I practice at ever light I get to *not* go straight but to stop already prepared for my turn.
VERY helpful... crash makes me laugh anyway so its even double better. =)
Dancing, playing with my pony and playing with my lady.
Work hard, play hard
Life is sweet... very sweet.