Honda or Sporty?

Elwood1960's picture
Submitted by Elwood1960 on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 16:24
in

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2009/Novemb...

Guess you cant argue with success. (-;

‹ New toy for my V-Star... older SV650s ›

Neither

Submitted by samgoody on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 20:48.

LOL, I don't see myself as a cruiser guy, so I'm not really considering either. The Sportster has the edge over the Honda in the looks department and in power. The Honda looks like it has a slightly bigger fuel tank, and the water cooling should be nice in that Miami heat.

Water . .I don't need no

Elwood1960's picture
Submitted by Elwood1960 on Wed, 11/18/2009 - 21:41.

Water . .I don't need no stinking water . . water is for little girls. MEN ride in grinding Miami summer traffic on air cooled machines! (-; Plus . .it saves on "ironing"! LoL

Funny . .what i caught first was that drum brake in back. As far as power, they will be close. It'll run about a grand less looks like . .so it has potential. Just funny to see a cutting edge company like Honda reach back 30 years retro. When I think Honda, I tend to think RR 1000 . . track dominant bikes . .the cruisers are not what they are best known for these days.

edit:
Kind of a question. Why does water even help? No fans, right? So just like a car, if you are in traffic and lose the fan belt or "motor" on the little electric fans . . you overheat in like 3 minuets, it is useless anyway when you are not moving and you are back to 'air cooled" anyway, right? Now, when running it hard and on the edge, sure . .now air cools the water and keeps oil temps down . . . or so logic would seem to say. (-;

2006 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
Sales, Peterson's North Miami Store

"quote"Elwood:Kind of a

Gary856's picture
Submitted by Gary856 on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 00:46.

"quote"
Elwood:
Kind of a question. Why does water even help? No fans, right? So just like a car, if you are in traffic and lose the fan belt or "motor" on the little electric fans . . you overheat in like 3 minuets, it is useless anyway when you are not moving and you are back to 'air cooled" anyway, right?

"end quote"

Well, both my liquid-cooled bikes (YZF600R and SV650N) have electric fans that kick on above certain temp. I don't know if all liquid-cooled bikes have fans, or if some of them don't.

My understanding is with liquid-cooling, thermostat regulates the engine operating temperature to a tighter range than in an air-cooled engine. That allows the engine parts to be built with tighter tolerance, resulting in better peak performance.

By the way, I'm not a cruiser person, so I actually like the Honda's look better just because it's barely "cruisiery"; it's closer to the "stanard" end of the spectrum.

Every water cooled bike I

Munch's picture
Submitted by Munch on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 00:55.

Every water cooled bike I have seen has an electric fan. The fan is there to help Pull the air through the cooling fins to help draw the heat out of the radiator. At which point once the coolant on the motor side reaches a set temperature will open the thermostat and circulate the hot coolant to the radiator allowing the cooler temp coolant to back fill and cool the motor.
Doing this limits the "swelling" that engine parts due when heated to allow for the lower tolerances. The Fins in the radiator gives more "cooling " or heat dissipation surface area and the fins allow the air to flow through to draw that heat away. Much more efficient Then an air cooled motor.
Air cooled has to depend on the "fins" on the cylinder heads that are there to give more surface area for air to pass over to draw the heat away. There are other mechanisms they use to get the heat out also such as the cooler sleeves that you can put on oil filters, forced air directional fairings and intentional parts/materials that also connect to the engine to draw out the heat. All this works great when you have moving air. Come to a stop, for too long, can become hazardous and shorten the engine life. However it does allow more room for innovations in the engine since there is no need to plan for plumbing for the cooling system of liquid cooled motors.

****Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy Shit....What a ride!!!"****

Well, now you know why I am a

Elwood1960's picture
Submitted by Elwood1960 on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 03:18.

Well, now you know why I am a sales man and not out turning a wrench. LoL I have been next to many water cooled bikes, never have seen the fan. (-; Guess I just didn't look to hard. For some reason I just thought they were like the add on oil coolers . .help some, add some volume, and geared more at performance operation than at traffic operation. I had no idea they were fan cooled and regulated like a cars radiator.

2006 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
Sales, Peterson's North Miami Store

After sleeping on it I think

Munch's picture
Submitted by Munch on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 11:08.

After sleeping on it I think I have seen one or two that don't have a fan behind the radiator. Those these bikes are the ones that have been re intro'd into the market designed much like an early 80's style bike. But the radiator is usually huge and protrudes outside the frame work of the bike to help collect the air up better. Next time you get beside one look behind the radiator. It's an itty bitty fan, but likely there.

****Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy Shit....What a ride!!!"****

Honda makes some nice bikes

Submitted by Spool on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 03:18.

Honda makes some nice bikes no doubt, but they'll never capture the "soul" that a Harley has imo. I'm sure this is a great bike as well, but I can't see a reason to buy this over a sporty even for a grand less. The sporty is an American icon and is a rock solid reliable and amazing machine. If I'm after a cruiser, Harley nails it every time, all the Japanese cruisers are pretty sweet as well but IMO they are missing something that really isn't tangible. I really wish the Japanese makers would bring back UJM's. The mid eighties Nighthawks for example, awesome machines that had their own style.

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against Honda, I own one that I love, but it seems like everytime a Japanese company makes a cruiser they end up being Harley wannabes.

Intangible . . . I am in

Elwood1960's picture
Submitted by Elwood1960 on Thu, 11/19/2009 - 03:46.

Intangible . . . I am in sales. That can be a valuable thing sometimes because it can be molded.

Between this little Honda and the Sporty? In that market as a "starter" bike the money will mater. Its a pretty hot looking little bike at a good price. If someone wants the bike for other reasons, the Sporty will rule. The bike has a cult following. Pretty well earned at that. In the right hands that Sporty can be anything you want it to be, including pretty darn fast.

In the big cruisers . . ? Gold Wings are kind of a gold standard in the road couch category. I could never find an unkind word to say about that 900 Munch is on, it is a first class machine top to bottom, if not the very top of its class. How about Owlies little S40? It is just a cool little machine.

Soul . . like I say, give me a rider, I'll sell that soul when I sit them on the right bike.

I think that Harley has a few bikes that just set the standard in old school custom cruisers, and they are indeed copied in design. . .and soul is kind of the right word. Just total package bikes. The Sporty is one for sure, The Dyna's are great, but the Soft Tails are the best in the line to me. The big bikes? They are good to be sure . .but to me they don't scream "Harley" like the Sporty's, Dysna's and for sure that Soft Tail above all does.

I was looking at that Yamaha Raider, fine machine and great looking . .but kind of "Orange County Chopper" too. LoL Kind of cookie cutter rather than tradition and "soul".

However, I just am not one of those Harley rules guys. Soul is an "intangible" thing, and it will define and manifest in different bikes with different people. As long as the guy on the back is cool, Im cool with whatever bike he rides always. I just dont rate machines by "performance numbers" . . I dont race and dont care. They all go faster than I do. It really is that "intangible soul" I like.

What I think Japan does well is package a good value. They build the bike with good tires and looks, a bike you can ride stock and forget.

Harley sells a shell, and no one rides it stock. Everyone build a Harley to match the rider. Its half the fun. Great value? hardly. Lol But . .in truth. . in the end thats the true soul of the Harley .. every owner has taken a little time, effort and expense and make it "his" or "hers". And when you ride one . . you know, it is not all "marketing". They truly are fine bikes.

2006 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
Sales, Peterson's North Miami Store