Younger sister has taken an interest in riding...
So, for better or for worse, my sister has taken quite an interest in riding lately. She's proven how serious she is by having taken the MSF and getting her motorcycle endorsement. She's been nagging me non-stop for advice and tips and to let her ride my ZX-6.
Needless to say, I kept telling her that it was not a good idea to start on my ZX, regardless of her taking the MSF. She's not set on her decision, though. She is undecided whether she wants to ride a cruiser or a sport motorcycle (which seems quite puzzling to me).
She's lowered her "options" to a few motorcycles.
-The obligatory Kawi Ninja 250R. She however hates the pre-2008 styling (as do I)
-The Kawi Vulcan 900
-The Suzuki GS 500F
-The Kawi Ninja 650R
-The Suzuki Boulevard S83
I'm sure most of you have one or more of the above motorcycles, and I would love to hear some feedback on your opinion on the matter. Personally, I think she should go with sport motorcycles, but obviously my decision is biased.
So my questions are:
Should she go cruiser or sport? She is willing to either way.
Which of the above would be the best choice? She's an excellent rider, but has beginner experience. We live in south FL, so there aren't many twisties or hills. Pretty basic stuff.
I appreciate all the help!
And if anyone needs any input from a 600cc rider, just let me know!
Cheers
I don't find it puzzling she
I don't find it puzzling she cannot decide between cruiser and sportbike as I was the same. My actual leanings are more dual sport but I did not realize this at the time. Actually, I would like one of each type of bike! But those are some pretty big cruisers she is eyeing up. If she decides to go that road she might be better off on something a little smaller.
One thing that may or not be important to her is the 'scene' that goes along with each type of bike. While I could be happy on a cruiser I do not fit the typical cruiser rider mold. Chaps and a skid lid are not for me. At the same time, hi-viz jackets and full face lids are not for everyone either. I'm not making any judgments here, I just know what I am comfortable with. And the same things apply to sportbike community and even, shock horror, the dual sport community.
My advice would be to go for the 250R. It's really a standard dressed up as a sportbike. Once she's been riding for a while she will have a better feel for what direction she wants to go in.
That's sound advice there. I
That's sound advice there. I guess I had the notion that when people want to ride, they are pretty solid on whether they want a cruiser, sport, or something else. Thanks for your reply :)
So could someone give me a quick input on whether the pre-2008 models of the Ninja 250R handle any differently than the current models? I know she likes the more modern look on the motorcycles.
whoa, I'd definatly stay away
whoa, I'd definatly stay away from the S83 (1300cc!!) as well as the vulcan 900 and maybe even the ninja 650R which has a lot of torque + hp...
--/\-[ Stu ]-/\--
Is she tall?
If she's short, especially if she's short for a woman, that will factor into her decision. As you know, sportbikes can have high seat heights, which unlike supermoto/dual-sport bikes don't hunker down much once your weight is in them. I'd hate to learn on my 600, and I'm 6'4". You just don't have much leverage over your bike.
If she's into sportbikes, I'd say Ninja 250R if she's ok with carbs or 650R if she wants FI. I'm personally not a big fan of the GS500, but that's just my bias. If she wants to follow in your footsteps as quickly (and as cheaply) as possible, I'd recommend she get real good on a 250R and then bump up to an I-4 supersport, or something like the Yamaha FZ6R. Then again, that's my bias (that's exactly what I did).
Oh, and DEFINITELY don't let her ride your ZX. Period. Not because she's a girl. Not because she's your sister. The liability is just way too high. Just watch the squid video posted in this thread to see what happens when somebody's not ready for the big leagues. If anything goes wrong, and it probably will (again, not because she's incompetent, but because she's inexperienced), the bike will exacerbate all of the consequences.
Take her to a "large" motorcycle store
Have her sit on a lot of bikes. And not just throw a leg over and tip the bike up. HOLD it up for her and have her get both feet on the pegs. Have her close her eyes and think about taking off from a start, pulling the feet up off the ground.
Which type of bike does she fumble with the least while not looking? What seems more natural?
Just a thought, anyway. YMMV.
And I agree -- that boulevard S83 is TOO big. My (STBX) wife has a Boulevard C50 that she can't even ride. It's an 800 lb paperweight in my garage right now because she can't control it. Yeah, she's taken the MSF (twice), but it's just TOO big and heavy. That S83 is even worse.
Thanks for the replies
I had told her those cruisers looked extremely powerful and heavy, but she definitely loved the look. But like I kept telling her, styling isn't everything.
To answer eternal05's question, she's 5'5". A little taller than average. And thanks for your video, I'll love to see her face when I show it to her next time she asks if she could ride my ZX.
I'm thinking of taking her to a dealer, I'll see if she feels comfortable on the 250R, then the 650R. I'll try doing what briderdt suggested.
But I did have another question in the back of my mind...does the 250R handle alright on the highway? Or should she avoid the highway (regardless of experience)? I'm asking because I know that when I'm on I-95, there's always some crazy fool going roughly 85mph weaving in and out of lanes, and (thankfully) my ZX's power could take me out of a tight situation a lot of times. It's just a slight concern whether or not the 250R can accelerate at a decent rate while going 65+mph.
Thanks for all your inputs!
In that list, I see bruised
In that list, I see bruised pride at best, a lost sister at worst. Not really a list of beginner friendly trainers there.
The fact she is uncertain of cruiser vs sport bike says she is not ready to invest in any of those machines yet either. I did not think I would ever want a large bike, I am shopping some pretty big ones now . . and know there will be an even bigger 3rd bike when money allows it. Would I in hind sight start with a 1600cc cruiser to save a little money? No F'en way.
Look, I wont preach, I started on an 883 and a year later I am shopping 1300 - 1800 cc bikes. But I know exactly what I am drawn to and don't mind scars. This is your kid sister, think safety first.
Try to get her to look at a Vulcan 500 maybe . .. a cruiser with a little sport bike attitude in the in line 4 . . or maybe used and small for 6 months so the jump later is not so hard, and equally as important, she will have an idea what she is looking for in her "ride" by then.
(Example, I am torn between a Star Raider and the 1300 Tourer . .very, very different machines in style. The Raider will be more fun in town and on daily rides, the 1300 will be kinder on those 600 mile days. I am debating if the Raider offers "enough" improvement on the highway to settle for it vs sacrificing in town attitude on 80% of my riding with the 1300. Subtle things I would have had no idea how to look at a year ago. Each will be a great all around machine in general terms.)
Put her on your sport bike, and she has the power bands to hurt herself with. Put her on a very large cruiser and the "power" can be mastered in a few weeks, but the weight takes some time. Drops with heavy bikes in the beginning are the norm.
I always say, I could have learned on any bike made . . the only question is how long it would have taken and how much it might have hurt & cost. (-; Think with the mind, not the ego. (-; She will have no less an ego than the boys you ride with, and if she is anything like the kind of girls I tend to hang with, it will be worse because she will want to prove she is as fast as any of you are . . . be sure that kind of thing does not fog the learning process.
All that said, that Vulcan is a great bike, look at the V star 650 as well.
Keep us posted on her progress and good luck
2006 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
Sales, Peterson's North Miami Store
Ninja 250R highway manners
Yeah this is the one spot where the Ninja doesn't really shine. I, personally, think it's still fine, especially if you're going to have the bike for a year or so and then look elsewhere, and especially since she shouldn't get on the highway first thing. The 250 will get blown around a bit more (again, this is not nearly so dramatic as people paint it out to be) due to its light weight, and it will accelerate on the highway more like your basic sports car than a sport bike (that is to say, fast for a car, not fast for a bike). It does mean you have to be a bit more careful about always being in the powerband, and always being alert and ready to go if you need to get out of a tricky situation.
Ultimately, I think it's perfectly manageable. If you want to go into sportbiking, I advocate one of three "beginner" bikes: the Ninja 250R, the 650R, and the Suzuki SV650SF. The latter two are really borderline, as they both have tremendous power (same 0-60mph --almost-- as their supersport ZX-R and GSX-R cousins). They're also heavier, torquey-er, have severe engine braking, and more aggressive riding positions. If your sister is a mere 5'5" I would REALLY suggest starting on the 250R, or she will struggle with it at low speeds and likely drop it a few times. Again, not because she's a girl, but because she's small and inexperienced. Drops are very common among new riders, and when you have a hard time getting your feet on the ground or holding the bike up, you're even more likely to succumb to a drop.
At some point when I get around to it (and before I sell my Ninja), I'll make a vid that addresses all of these concerns. I'm really busy at the moment, however, so you shouldn't expect that until winter vacation. If we get bad weather again this winter, then maybe not until Jan/Feb, so this won't be too useful to you.
Decisions made
Elwood1960, thanks for your suggestions. I think the 500 Vulcan and the V-Star are better options than the ones she's picked so far.
eternal05, your input's been very valuable. I appreciate your thoroughness. I'm set on having her test ride a 250R. Maybe she'll be impressed. I'll keep you all posted on her progress/decision; she's going to the dealer with me tomorrow.
SV650SF. More popular than
SV650SF. More popular than the 650R with a lot of parts and aftermarket support. 500 bucks more and you can get one with ABS. Rock solid, no issues. And with them v-twins, you get a nice even power delivery that makes it hard to goose the throttle for a 12 o'clock or for spinning out the rear (which actually can be done, but it's hard... don't ask me how i know...). I'm not a big fan of cruisers, not my kind of riding, and a sports/sports-tourer bike will be a more capable ride if she decides to follow you to the track.
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AFM #998
If there's anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now...
Success!
So guys, I'm happy to report that today we went to a few dealers so she could sit on some bikes.
We first went into a dealer that had all sorts of motorcycles, from scooters to liter bikes. Just for giggles, she sat on a Vespa. Seemed super-comfy, but obviously, didn't do anything for her. In any case, we went on to some more serious bikes. She first tried some cruisers. She half-jokingly wanted to sit on a Vulcan 2000, but she also liked the Vulcan 500 (as suggested by Elwood). She liked all the cruisers she sat on (Honda rebel as well), but the Vulcan was the one she liked best.
Then we moved on to the sport motorcycles. She seemed more enthusiastic on a sport motorcycle, too. We sat her on a variety of bikes, including the Ninja 500, 650r, and the Suzuki GS500 and 650. So she had a lot of bikes to sit on and compare, and I had talked to the salesman earlier to allow her to give the 250r a test ride. She didn't know I did that prior to coming into the dealership, so she was all excited.
So she got on a red '09 Ninja 250, and took it for a spin in the parking lot. She couldn't have been happier. Needless to say, after all that time in the dealer, the 250 won her heart. I would not have guessed she would be so set on the decision.
Thanks a lot for your help guys. We got a brand new '09 Ninja for about $4150 OTD. Decent price, in my opinion. She was the happiest girl in the world riding home in a 250r next to her big bro's ZX-6r :D
That's excellent!!!! Now get
That's excellent!!!! Now get pics of the bike on here!
****We know yesterday existed because we remember it, the future we can not predict as it has yet to happen, and the moment you say now it becomes the memorable past...so WHEN in time do we exist?****
Hell, get HER on the board.
Hell, get HER on the board. (-;
Thats is a great bike . . she'll love it.
2006 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
Sales, Peterson's North Miami Store
Congrats!
Can't go wrong! She'll get a lot out of that bike.
oh man... it's gonna be so
oh man... it's gonna be so embarrassing to you when she starts passing you in the corners at the track...
:-P
Congrats to her new bike. :-)
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AFM #998
If there's anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now...
Thanks
I'm sure she's going to love it for a long time. And megaspaz, I've no doubt she'll one day embarrass the hell out of me and my track buddies. :-)
That'll be the day I'll officially inaugurate her into being a pro ;-)
yah know i was only 1/2
yah know i was only 1/2 kidding about that, but getting into racing and trackdays, I know a few instructors/racers that ride 250s that are smoking farking hot and hard to pass and will pass a bigger bike like nothing. the 250 will be a perfect first track bike for learning how to get blazing fast corner entry speed.
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AFM #998
If there's anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now...
Yeah, but it'll need some help
If...scratch that...WHEN she decides to take her 250 to the track, two MANDATORY mods:
1) Better tires. The stock ones blow for the track.
2) Upgrade those brakes! Steel braided lines, better pads, and bigger disk. The brakes are fine for around the city, but on the track they're worthless.
um... you don't use brakes at
um... you don't use brakes at the track on a ninja 250... normally, it's less brakes more throttle, but for the ninja 250, it's no brakes all throttle! again, i'm half kidding... but srsly, you keep that ninja 250 wound up as much as possible. if you brake, you lose any momentum you got with that bike. The reason why them racers and instructors are so farking fast, is the fact they brake very little and absolutely blaze through the whole damn corner.
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AFM #998
If there's anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now...
I guess it depends on the track
Obviously corner speed is super important on a 250, but coming out of turn 2 at PR, full throttle down a steep hill for a quarter mile into tight decreasing-radius turn 3, you BETTER have good brakes! My ninja really suffered from brake fade...not something you want on the track.
Pacific Raceways?
PR = Pacific Raceways? If so, I can relate, and that's on a BICYCLE! I've run off the road in that one a couple times. Fortunately stayed upright...
Yup!
Yeah, you definitely need your brakes at Pacific! Basically the less wide-open and more technical the course is, the more your brakes matter on a 250. On really wide-open sweeping courses with high corner speeds you're lucky to even hit speeds that would be too high for the corners.
Lucckkkyyyy!!!! I just
Lucckkkyyyy!!!! I just finished reading this thread and I'm so so so jealous of your sister! Could you also buy me a Ninja 250? :D
I hope she's having fun on it. :) Congrats!