Suzuki S40 or Honda Shadow VLX ?

in

I've been told I'll outgrow the Honda Rebel real soon, so I'm looking at the Suzuki S40 and the Honda Shadow VLX for my first bike.  I would like to get some feedback.  I'm petite -  5'2" and reach to the controls is also a concern, (i know both of these are low seat heights).  Would appreciate all pros and cons.  thank you.

Talk to Owlie. She just

Elwood1960's picture

Talk to Owlie. She just ramped up on an S 40 and it s still fresh.

It is a good starter, but weight and power is weight and power, a 250 is easy, a little bigger = a little harder. Simple math. (-;

Everyone has been "kind" on the larger bike choices lately. The question is, during the first few weeks, can you deal with added effort, added risk, and will you brush off a drop or two? Not saying you will drop it, but the odds go up with every lb you add and every bit of added power. A 250 is always easy, universal. As you move up you and your personal abality to learn, adapt, tolerate risk, and your own personality traits all come into play. No one size fits all answer, its a judgment call.

I dont discourage anyone. I started on my 883. The first 3 or 4 weeks were difficult and at times scary. I road no less than an hour a day every day for a LONG time at first, set up cones and WORKED. If I had started on a smaller bike, I could have spent less time working and more time relaxing and "playing". Would I recomend my 883 as a starter, not for many people to be honest. It is not the worst, but is sure as heck was far from the best. LoL However, I am a pretty big guy, 6'3", 220'ish, and very risk tolerant up to a "point". I tend to not be afraid of a challenge, or a little pain. So going for what I wanted was worth the stretch "to me" . . .

All that said, the S 40 is a good bike all around. Has a good rep and a good look. The Shadow is also a good machine. Look at weight, and very importantly, sit on them. Got to find a machine that talks to you. You dont drive motorcycles, your RIDE them. To me it is like a horse, it is kind of a relationship, you have to trust and enjoy your ride. Trust your instincts some. For all the effort and risk, I have to say I have no regrets on my 883, she is a fine fit for me in every way . .we are a good "match". That is kind of what you are after.

2006 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
Sales, Peterson's North Miami Store

Welcome to the group. I

owlie's picture

Welcome to the group.

I basically second everything that Elwood says, but here are my two pennies worth...

First, you should think about how you are planning to ride the bike.  If you are just going to be taking easy rides down country roads and don't ever plan to get above 60 or so, any of the 250s will probably work for you with no problem.  If you are wanting to take day trips or commute regularly on the big interstates, then you will probably not be as happy with a smaller bike after the first couple of months.  After all of the reading I have done, I have pretty much come to the conclusion that you mostly hear about people complaining about having started too small because they chose to buy a new bike very quickly after buying the first one.  However, you don't hear alot of complaints about people who started too big because, let's face it, no body wants to admit to not being as good as they want people  to think they are.  :)

With respect to the bikes themselves (btw, I'm about the same height as you are.):

Honda Rebel:  This one fit me fine when I sat on it, but I think that the controls were further forward than on the S40.  This shouldn't be to hard to modify if you go with this bike.

Honda Shadow:  I couldn't find the specific model you mentioned on their website, so I'll substitute the Spirit.  The Spirit is a 2 cylinder, 750cc engine.  It weighs 530+ lbs.  Basically, this translates to significantly more power than the other two bikes, and a lot more bike to pick up if you drop it.  Now, having dropped mine several times, I can tell you that trying to pick up a bike in the middle of the road while your adrenaline is still pumping and you can't get a decent lungful of air, a lighter bike might be nice to have.

Suzuki S40:  This is a single cylinder, 650 engine.  It weighs 350lbs.   From the moment I sat on this bike, I knew it was the right bike for me.  I still sat on a few others, but I didn't seriously consider anything else.  That said, within the first 50miles of riding, I dropped it three times.  Maybe starting with a smaller bike would have prevented this, maybe not.  None of the drops caused severe injury to me or the bike (though I had to replace one of the tail lights), but I have no doubt that I pushed too hard, too fast for my skill level.  I pulled back and started at the basics again, and I have gone another 450mi without adding any more scratches to the chrome.  :)  One thing to note with the S40 is that it is well know for backfiring (not loudly, but still). 

Suzuki makes a couple of 250s that you might consider looking at.  Also, you should look at the Vulcan 500, and maybe Yamaha's V-Stars (they have a 250 and a 650- both two cylinder)

In the end, it comes down to what you are comfortable with.  A bigger bike is probably going to be alot more work while you are still learning the basics.

Also, if you haven't taken the MSF, do so before you pick out the bike.  You'll have alot better idea of what you are looking for.  :)

Best of luck!
Owlie

One more thing

eternal05's picture

Taking the MSF course will also give you a chance to ride, not sit on, but actually RIDE the 250s that you might otherwise consider buying. This is a great way to make an informed decision.

The S40 is the far superior

WeaponZero's picture

The S40 is the far superior motorcycle.  The VLX is only an "around town" bike because the fact that it only has a 4 speed transmission combined with its anemic power prevents it from being able to get up to highway speeds a real struggle.  Most motorcycles have at least a 5 speed transmission which helps them safely and (relatively) easily get up to highway speeds regardless of how weak or powerful their engines are, but the VLX doesn't have this, and as a result even 250s can pass it on the highway.

Also, there's a reason that the VLX was discontinued two years ago while the S40 is still being made.  The VLX has always been a slow seller for Honda because price-wise it couldnt compete with the performance of the Kawasaki Vulcan 500 or (when it was being produced), the Yamaha Virago 535 (which was replaced by the V-Star 650).

In short:  If you want a sub-750cc cruiser, your ONLY options you should be considering are the S40, Kawsaki Vulcan 500, Yamaha V-Star 650, and the various 250s on the market.

S 40 vs Honda VLX

DO NOT LISTEN to the above comment. The Honda VLX is VASTLY superior to the Suzuki S 40.

I know because I just bought my wife a VLX after test-driving several of each.

The S 40 is a single cylinder. Driving it is like driving a lawn mower. It is cramped and rides rough. Both my wife and I hated the ones we drove.

Driving the VLX was a totally different experience. The VLX has a MUCH more relaxed riding position, since it is essentially a small cruiser, and it rides smoother, shifts easier and handles better. It is heavier than the S 40, true, but better balanced and therefore easier for women and smaller riders to control. The brakes are infinitely better.

And the claim that Rebel 250s pass VLXs on the highway is ABSURD and shows the writer has no idea what he is talking about. I doubt he's ever even driven either motorcycle. Yes, the VLX has four gears, but the motor is made for cruising. Yes, it revs higher, obviously, but it will run circles around the 250 and will also beat the tinny, buzzy S 40.

It's true Honda quite making them two years ago, but you talk to almost any VLX owner and theyll have good things to say. And you can always get parts in the unlikely event it breaks down.

Stick with the VLX. You'll be EXTREMELY glad you did.

So! Based on the above exchange...

Rab's picture

So! Based on the above exchange, I think either will do.

They're both good motorcycles, so go with the one that speaks to you.

+1

owlie's picture

+1

I still say to check out the

Dagger's picture

I still say to check out the Yamaha V-Star 650 as well.. I liked it much better than the Shadow myself.. Sat a lot better.. Less weight I believe.. And they handle great.

Dagger

I just want to make it out of this life alive...

Honda VLX vs Yamaha V-Star

I agree with you that the Yamaha V-Star is an excellent small cruiser. I owned one and loved it. Given a choice between the VLX and V-Star 650, I'd definitely choose the V-Star, if it was ME driving.

However, my wife couldn't handle it. The V-Star is 40 pounds heavier than the VLX, and wider. She had trouble getting her feet flat on the ground. Whereas the VLX, with its low seat height and slender frame, fits her perfectly. She sat on the V-Star and said "no way." She sat on the VLX and said "yes!"

Too bad, because the V-Star is a great, fun, reliable bike. And has five gears as opposed to the VLX's four.

Want to clear something up.

Munch's picture

Want to clear something up. Gear amounts should rarely be used as a gauge on speed, or top speed limits. Doesn't matter. If the bike, car, or whatever have you has a set number of gears those gears probly have the necessary ranges to do the job it's intended for.
HD's now have a 6 speed tranny..... yay for them, from this thread that should mean that they should out distance and speed me. Not hardly ever the case.
Now lets look at bigger vehicles. Some of the older muscle cars have a 5 spd tranny, compare them to newer sports cars with 6 speed trannies and the track times are close but the 5 spd can easily beat it.
Heck an old Dodge duster at one time had only a 2 spd auto that would destroy anything in it's class.
It's not the gear count, its the range of each gear and what the bike is set up to do. In most cases more gears usually mean shorter ranges and more shifting to cover the gap, vice versa for the lesser gear boxes.
So the whole argument above made based on "how many gears" is not anything to do with which is better. IF you are concerned over why one had four rather then 5..... or 6 even... go to spec sheets and look at each gear range and see how "tall" or "short" each one is. Then make your decision.

****Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy Shit....What a ride!!!"****

Regardless, I've lived in

WeaponZero's picture

Regardless, I've lived in places where the average speed on the highway, the speed of traffic flow, cruises at 80mph+. To me this says that any motorcycle that can't comfortable cruise at that speed without pushing the engine to its max and accelerate up to that speed at a decent rate of time is not highway-worthy. Regardless of the speed limit you must be able to match the flow of traffic, IMO. And everything I've read about the VLX says it struggles a lot doing that, mainly due to the four speed transmission. I did a lot of research on it because my father was considering buying one at one point and he was too lazy to do his own research. He ended up deciding against it despite liking how the bike "felt" when sitting on it because all of the reviews basically indicated that, in my eyes, the bike was not HIGHWAY-WORTHY. And the main culprit according to these reviews wasn't the engine but rather the transmission and its poor gearing.

Traffic doesn't always move at the speed limit. Take for example Bigelow Blvd where I live. It's a road that has street lights and everything and only has a 35mph speed limit. I take this road on my commute to work mainly because there's a stretch of Bigelow at one point where it's about 4 miles in between intersections, and because there's no traffic signals there traffic cruises at 65-70mph, despite the posted speed limit being 35mph. IN that situation, the one car thar is going the speed limit is just as much of a hazard as the car doing 100 swerving around everyone and weaving in and out. And since traffic on the highway can, in places, flow steadily at 80 or more in some areas, a bike MUST be able to do that comfortably and for an extended period of time while having a bit of juice left over to be called highway-worthy in my eyes.

"mainly due to the four speed

Munch's picture

"mainly due to the four speed transmission"
Not a factual representation of the limits of the bikes abilities.

"these reviews wasn't the engine but rather the transmission and its poor gearing."
Better and closer description of the limitations.

My point being that how many gears a trany has does not indicate it's abilities or lack there of. Rather the gearing ( gear ratio) in the set number of gears. In other words say a bad set geared tranny:
1st 0-5 mph
2nd 5-20 mph
3rd 20-40
4th 40-55

Good trans:
1st 0- 15
2nd 15-35
3rd 35-50
4th 50- 75 or above.
You can have both transmissions on the same bike it's just on how the gearing in each trany is set up. Both have 4 gear trans but the latter is better set up for highway purposes.
I just hate to see the statement getting blanketed to where a non mechanically inclined person would turn down a good beginner bike because of the Gear count rather then the trans set up.

****Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy Shit....What a ride!!!"****

Still, the reviews I read

WeaponZero's picture

Still, the reviews I read plainly indicated that the poor gearing on the 4 speed transmission (which badly needed a 5th gear for highway duty) kept the bike from being highway-worthy. I am paraphrasing of course but that is the case, and it was not just one single magazine article but a variety of sources.

Just want to mention that I

Munch's picture

Just want to mention that I wasn't countering what you read. Just wanted to clarify the difference. I have no doubts with the different articles you read that the 4 speed tranny it has, with the ratios that is in the tranny, that it was a poor highway performer.
I was just wanting to clarify that it's more in depth then just "Oh well it has a 4 spd on it....no way is it gonna be good for highway". More to make any purchaser of any bike not just ask how many gears.....but how tall are the gears (or short) and will the final gear be able to get up to and maintain highway speeds safely.

****Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy Shit....What a ride!!!"****

Like the old days when a

Elwood1960's picture

Like the old days when a stock 383 ram air "Supper Bee" got a 4-11 gear box . . it went from a 140 mph plus monster if a good wrench owned it to a rocket off the line, but SCREAMING at 110. I always liked the taller setup . .man that thing was fast on the slab.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Super_Bee
(For those youngsters on the board, fast & fun)

Gearing serves a "purpose" . . so understood, not gear count, but gears "matched" to the purpose desired.

2006 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
Sales, Peterson's North Miami Store

Put another way

eternal05's picture

The number of gears something has and its ability to accelerate, its top speed, and the engine speed at which it "cruises" are perhaps related, but not directly.

If this bike couldn't hit necessary speeds in its 4th gear, maybe it needed a 5fth gear...but it's also possible that they didn't give it a 5th gear because that gear would have been to steep for the power of the engine. It's also possible that, if they had used taller gearing, 4 gears would have worked just fine. I think that's what Munch is getting at.

Fifth gear

I agree with Munch. Some of those old muscle cars only had four gears. Remember the old song "Four on the Floor?"

The problem is, the VLX engine starts to buzz a little at 65-70 mph and you find yourself constantly looking to shift into fifth, especially if that's what you're used to.

A fifth gear would really have smoothed things out. Only drawback to this bike.

Fifth gear

Also -- if you've ever driven a VLX you know how "tall" the gears are, as Munch mentions. You can downshift into first gear, for example, at practically 10-mph , whereas on my Suzuki C-90 and its 1,500 ccs and five gears, I have to go almost all the way down.

So, don't let the 4-speed thing scare you off. The VLX can easily handle highway speeds. It just revs higher, but the engine is built for it.

My sporty is a 5 speed . .but

Elwood1960's picture

My sporty is a 5 speed . .but the 883 is short geared for low end fun. At 70 she is starting to be "buzzy", but she gets the rest of the way to 100 in a hurry, and I know, will sit at 90 on a 600 mile run with out breaking a sweat . . .

buzzy is bad for a bike you tour around on . .it is "good" for carving traffic on the highway as you sit in the middle of a power band . . . it is exactly what the Sporty was built to do.

I have not ridden the bike in question . . but my guess is distance was not a priority . .short quick runs . . revving the crap out of it is fun . . . sporty little toy was the idea to begin with.

Always remember a lot of bikes "design" dates back to a time when 200 mph street bikes were not the norm. rational sane folks could still be found that felt 100 mph on the street was down right fast. (-;

2006 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
Sales, Peterson's North Miami Store