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Scooter or Motorcycle?
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January 17, 2009 at 2:49 am #2468haakon59Participant
At this point, I have not even gone through the Motorcycle Safety Course. How difficult is it to learn to ride a standard motorcycle? Although I have no experience here, I have driven a manual car for many years (not the same thing, I realize). I am guessing that learning to ride a scooter will be a little easier than riding a motorcycle at first anyway. On the other hand, I for some reason have been thinking that motorcycles are much stronger and longer lasting machines, which to me is a nice advantage. So at this point, I am undecided about which way to go. Some days I lean towards motorcycles, others I lean towards scooters.
I have been reading and looking around a bit and feel it’s likely I will wind up with something like a 250cc machine from Suzuki or Honda if it’s a motorcycle and if I go with a scooter I am leaning towards Aprilia at this point. Any comments? Thanks.
January 17, 2009 at 4:29 am #15738MunchParticipantEither way MSF would benefit you greatly. A scooter is great to learn on though depending on type would give you limited experience. They are light…mostly, with some exceptions, limited to a certain speed threshold and somewhat varying riding positions. It all depends on what you end up with.
Shifting on a bike is the same principle as a car but obviously different in mechanics giving the position of the clutch, throttle and “selector”. If you get an automatic transmission scooter you will get limited help if any on the coordination and multitasking skills you are going to need to acquire.
Turning and balance will be near the same- the main variations will be speed and weight in slow speed maneuvers.
IF you do not have access to a MSF or equivalent course then I would recommend the scooter first or very least a 250 cc motorcycle. The scooter however (depending on state laws and speed restrictions) may not require you to have an endorsement or permit. Make sure to look up local laws always.
Some of your focuses should be are:
Function– commuter? Recreational? Highway or just in town?
Skill and comfort– When looking and sitting, which you should do lots of! Get a feel for the girth and weight of the vehicle, try the balance to see if its too top heavy for you, and try to see if the riding position is comfortable to be in and any steering is not restricted.
Riding requirements– Again this goes back to local laws. Permit needed? Insurance?
Just those few questions can get you started in the right direction.
Look around…sit on everything you can manage to squat on. You will get a good idea. Never let your ego, or your friends decide your ride for you. Especially not for your first ride.January 17, 2009 at 4:35 am #15739MaxDadAKParticipantWhile I can’t reccomend one or the other as a best fit, I’ll offer my advice for a 250. I looked online and asked around alot about 250’s and decided on the V Star 250 due to there reliability and overall performance against other 250’s. It’s a little more costly than other 250’s but it has overall better torque, roll on power (against other 250 cruisers) , and it seems to have a better resale value. Of course this is just the opion of a motorcycle newbie. As far as scooters vs motorcycles I guess it comes down to a combination of what you want to ride and what feels right to you. Just do your research and if possible get your butt in a dealership and see what they have to offer.
January 17, 2009 at 5:25 am #15740haakon59ParticipantI live in Washington State, which does require an endorsement and I therefore plan on taking the Motorcycle Safety Course, there are three schools in my area.
I have visited several dealerships for scooters–Kymco, Sym, Vespa, Piaggio, Aprilia, Buddy International, Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, etc. If I do decide to go the Scooter route, I plan on getting a 250cc scooter (or more) and have narrowed my choices down to Aprilia and Suzuki, but there are many good choices I could make.
At first, the reason I thought first about a scooter is because I imagined it would be much easier to learn on. All you have to do is “twist and go”.
But as I have thought about it more, I started to wonder if shifting will actually be a big deal. Will it? I had no problem with my car, after all. Now I don’t have any experience on a motorcycle, except a few times as a kid, more than 30 years ago. There is a little bit of coordination involved, I imagine, because I will need to shift and pull in the clutch and accelerate and will have the front brakes controlled by my right hand and the back brakes by the foot pedal. When I am just sitting here thinking about it, it sounds like it will take a lot of coordination. Yet I see people ride motorcycles all the time and they get it.
I was in a Moto Guzzi bike shop the other day (I was looking at the Aprilia scooters there) and several of the customers came in and assured me that learning the clutch would not be a big deal after I told them why I was looking at the scooters. So it has me thinking: maybe I should consider the motorcycle instead. People take this motorcycle safety course all the time and they pass it, so I imagine I can as well. At least I hope so. Recently, I have run into some people who have not passed this course, so now I am a little worried. At this point, I am going back and forth.
January 17, 2009 at 5:40 am #15743briderdtParticipantI took the MSF with Puget Sound Safety out of Tacoma Mall. My wife too the class through the organization out of Renton (they use a Boeing parking lot in Kent).
In any case… I also drive a manual transmission car, but I have a lot of years of road bike (bicycle) riding and racing, so I was pretty comfortable on two wheels in traffic (and already had hazard radar down pretty well), so that was one less learning curve to have to climb. But… I had no problems with making the transition to left-hand-clutch, left-foot-shift. The one thing I find myself doing, though, is not using the rear brake so much (right foot), because I’ve been so used to both hands being brakes in my road bikes.
So I don’t think you’ll have a lot of problem with the transition, but give it some time. As much as you can, try to get some distance up one learning curve (say, using the controls) before tackling another (say, riding in traffic).
January 17, 2009 at 5:40 am #15741haakon59ParticipantMaxDadAK–Yes, I have been looking at the Yamaha VStar 250 and it seems like a nice bike. I haven’t been up to the new Yamaha dealer in my area yet, although I did visit the one closest to me earlier. Yamaha makes a nice product. Thank you for the recommendation.
January 17, 2009 at 5:43 am #15742haakon59ParticipantYes, I plan on taking the MSF and there are 3 companies in my area which offer it. I am guessing most of my riding will be in town, but I will likely be using it on highways too (50 mph).
Lately, I have been looking at 750cc size motorcycles which weigh around 500 lbs (depending on the brand) and which I feel comfortable on. But, I think I am going to stick with a 250cc motorcycle, if I go this direction. Several writers have commented on the usefulness of learning on a smaller bike which doesn’t have the power to accelerate as much, etc., and I feel this is good advice. Besides, part of my motivation is gas savings.
I am a little worried that I won’t be able to learn how to shift fast enough to pass the MSF course–even though generally I am coordinated, etc. 8 hours of practice seems like a very short timespan to me and I don’t currently own a bike so I can’t practice. This is part of the reason I am a little concerned.
January 17, 2009 at 5:53 am #15744haakon59ParticipantThank you for your advice. I was planning on taking the course through Evergreen in Seattle (classroom) and Renton (practical). I am not sure if I am worried about nothing of if this is going to be a huge challenge–obviously I want to pass the course so I don’t have to take the test through the state licensing people.
Most of the motorcycle people I know seem to think is is mostly a matter of practice and that the coordination will come. I just worry whether I will be able to do this in 8 hours or not. I will be considering buying a bike in advance, I guess, and trying to practice in a little, given some instruction perhaps from a friend. Thanks.
January 17, 2009 at 7:34 am #15746chaiyaParticipantDon’t worry so much about learning how to shift. The MSF BRC is supposed to be for people who have never been on a motorcycle before. I don’t drive a manual transmission car and I had no motorcycle experience (except being a passenger), but I was able to pick up the controls on the bike in class enough to pass on the first go. The school I took my class with recommended that we wait till after we took the class to get a bike. It is easier to learn things the right way first then to have to unlearn bad habits. The class was tons of fun…just relax and have a good time
Good Luck!
January 17, 2009 at 8:31 am #15747eonParticipantI think you are worrying too much about the controls. I am another person who had never ridden before the class and had no problems (to be honest, I never got enough speed up to get past 2nd gear). From reading internet forums like this for the past 6 months it seems only a very few people struggle so just relax and go there to learn and you will be fine. The test will take care of itself.
From what you have said it sounds like you are only considering a scooter because of the worries over the clutch. If it is more than that then the bigger scooters could work for you. I ended up with a maxi-scoot and have no regrets. For in town riding it is perfect and can reach 95mph so it is plenty fast enough. They do tend to be heavier, slower and more expensive than motorcycles so there is a steep price to pay for the ‘twist and go’ and storage. If you haven’t been to Renton Motorcycles yet that would be worth your while. They have Honda, Yamaha’s and Kawasaki’s in there, both bikes and scooters. A good place to window shop. Also University Honda has a good reputation (but not quite the same quantity of stock on display)
I also took the course with Puget Sound Safety (but in North Seattle) and I thought they were good. Have no experience with Evergreen yet but will probably take the ERC with them next month. And I would wait to take the course before buying anything. There is a person on another forum who bought a scooter like mine AND a cruiser but has been kicked off the BRC twice now. Now she is selling the bike (and hopefully the scooter). Expensive mistake to make.
Good luck with whatever you choose and keep us informed. There are starting to be enough of us in this area that one day we might be able to organize a BBM WA group ride!
January 17, 2009 at 2:01 pm #15750Sangria7ParticipantSome points to keep in mind:
1. Driving standard cars and riding a motorcycle has no correlation to learning how to ride. Saying that the MSF will teach you how to shift even if you had no experience at all.
2. Taking the MSF course and getting your M class liscense will not get you “road” ready. It simply graduates you to a larger parking lot. I suggest a lot more practice on the parking lot and around your neighborhood. Doing 15MPH in the MSF course versus going 60+MPH on the roads is large jump. I practiced for 1 week around my neighborhood and parking lots before I jumped on the main roads, then it took me another 2 week to get on the freeway. Of course your progression will be dictated by your comfort level and how much risk you are willing to take. Remember this is your first bike, so learn it as much as you can. You will see what I mean when you first get that 50+MPH blast on your chest.
3. I dont recommend buying a bike in advance. I do recommend taking that MSF first then go back and check out the bikes. Taking the MSF course will give you the benefit of knowing what to feel out and what is comfortable for you. Going to the dealer first without any knowledge at all, makes you vulnerable to the sales pitches “You can ride a 1300 no problem. Its much more stable…”
4. Lastly go back and read over Munch’s post. Be honest with yourself on what function your bike will be. In very heavy stop and go traffic a large scooter will probably serve you better instead of constantly shifting up and down. If your traffic is pretty free flowing, a standard cycle might do. Again, this will be based on what you are comfortable with. And reiterating Munch’s final wisdom, dont let your ego or friends dictate your own personal safety.
Elm Valle
Thunder Roads Magazine
http://www.Thunderroadstexas.comJanuary 17, 2009 at 4:51 pm #15752haakon59ParticipantI am happy to hear this–obviously I have been worried that my lack of previous experience would put me at a disadvantage. Also, I can see that you are right about waiting to buy a bike, so this is what I will do. Thank you.
January 17, 2009 at 4:56 pm #15753briderdtParticipant1. Though driving a manual transmission car doesn’t correlate to shifting a motorcycle, the fact that you already have the mindset you SHOULD shift is a plus — that already-programmed in brain pattern of having to DO something about that screaming engine.
2. Totally agree. There’s some magical point where that wind just changes. I’ve been up to 56 on my speedo (which, according to the folks on SVrider is about 10% higher than actual), and the difference in the wind is HUGE.
3. I bought my SV650s from a private party having never ridden a motorcycle at all, about a month before I took the MSF class. I rode it in some parking lots, and even to work once before the class. That throttle response really shocked me. Then I took the class using a Honda Nighthawk 250. SO easy. Then getting back on my bike… I was thinking that I should have waited longer and gone with a Ninja 250… I’m okay with the 650 now, and surprised myself this week riding after almost a month of being off the bike, that I was just comfortable on the road.
January 17, 2009 at 5:09 pm #15755ranetteParticipantI started on a scooter(Buddy International 150) and then bought a motorcycle soon after(Ducati GT1000). I still have both, and have no plans to give up either one. As others have mentioned it is really a function of what you’re going to use it for.
The scooter was literally twist and go. Very very easy to get a feel for. My situation with the motorcycle is a little different than others on this forum in that I started with a large bike. No incidents and learned to ride relatively competently in a few months but it definitely took dedication, patience, maturity and some self confidence acquired by a few months on the scooter. My feeling is that even starting on a 250 or similar, there is still more to learn than on a scooter, probably even a maxi scoot.
One thing in the above posts that I would have to disagree with is Sangria7 when he wrote “Driving standard cars and riding a motorcycle has no correlation to learning how to ride.” I think that being comfortable with a manual transmission car is invaluable experience. Not that shifting can’t be learned without it, but just the idea that the sequence of gears, downshifting, etc, are not new concepts, gives you one less thing to think about even if the controls are altogether different. I am quite certain that it helped me immensely and in my MSF class the never evers who had experience with a clutch seemed much more comfortable than those who were only familiar with P, D, N & R.
I live in a small town, about 2 miles from “downtown” and I constantly find myself making that run into town. For those trips the scooter is incredibly practical and fun, also keep in mind this sub $2 gas won’t be here for long. As for the motorcycle, at least in my particular situation, it isn’t nearly as practical, most of my longer trips will require the storage space of our SUV, I bought it mostly for fun. One thing I can tell you is that as I sit here in sub zero temperatures picturing my first ride of the spring, that little picture in my mind is not of me on the scooter. In short, for me scooter:fun and practical and I’m missing it. Motorcycle:an almost instinctual need to get back on that machine the moment the weather permits.
January 17, 2009 at 5:25 pm #15754haakon59ParticipantThank you for your confidence building assurance–this is the type of input I was looking for. I was guessing that I would be OK but read an account yesterday of a person who failed to make it through the course, which worried me.
You are right, part of the reason I am considering the scooter is because of the clutch. Seattle has some hills and I remember having to learn the skill of stopping on a hill with my manual transmission car. At first it was an “anxiety producing event” but I learned it just fine and drove for years preferring a manual transmission car. In the last few years I have switched back. But as someone else mentioned, this is largely irrelevant as the coordination skills will be completely different.
University Honda just recently closed their doors–I don’t know them personally so I am not aware of whether the owner just wanted to retire or if they had bad sales in this terrible economy, or what their reason is. But I didn’t know about Renton Motorcycles, so I think I will go down there, thank you for the referral.
Let me know what you think of Evergreen–I haven’t signed up yet, so your recommendation will be helpful. A friend of mine from years ago actually also had nice things to say about Puget Sound Safety. Thanks.
Oh, and yes, if I do this, I would absolutely love to be part of some group rides–you can never have too many friends is my philosophy!
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