Helmet law confusions....
Well here in NC with increased riders, there is a very big debate about Helmets.
First and always is the "Mandatory helmet laws are unconstitutional". This one is for each individual to argue on their own merits. Personally, every person has the right to decide their own fate, but I will continue to wear mine regardless of outcomes.
Second- What helmets qualify. Here in NC, the best I could find is this-
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§ 20‑140.4. Special provisions for motorcycles and mopeds.
(a) No person shall operate a motorcycle or moped upon a highway or public vehicular area:
(1) When the number of persons upon such motorcycle or moped, including the operator, shall exceed the number of persons which it was designed to carry.
(2) Unless the operator and all passengers thereon wear on their heads, with a retention strap properly secured, safety helmets of a type that complies with Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 218.
(b) Violation of any provision of this section shall not be considered negligence per se or contributory negligence per se in any civil action.
(c) Any person convicted of violating this section shall have committed an infraction and shall be fined according to G.S. 20‑135.2A(e) and (f). (1973, c. 1330, s. 6; 1989, c. 711, s. 1; 2007‑360, s. 7.)
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Now trying to track down what exactly that means I managed to come across this link:
http://webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-helmets/DOT-standard.htm
Well now doesn't that just clear it up? You would think.
Increasingly there is confusion here about what is legal and what is not, also to further muddle it up is the in ability for clear classification on "styles" of helmets.
Though "skid lids" or "bean covers" can carry the DOT standard some LEO's here are under the idea that it is illegal to wear them in NC. I cannot find this stipulation anywhere. Whats worse is you can ask one LEO and get one answer and another one and get the reverse.
Here is a link to a site protesting here locally and it seems they are connected throughout the country.
http://bikersmag.com/html/nc_biker_rights.html
In Texas its just as
In Texas its just as strange:
1. Helmets are required for those under the age of 18 operating a motorcycle.
2. Ages above 18 helmets are not mandatory, unless the operator has taken the MSF course. Individuals with M-Class licenses obtained through the MSF must wear a helmet.
3. Operators can obtain an M-Class License with an helmet excemption clause. Meaning you can go to the DMV/DPS and tell them you do not want to wear one. Then on your license they put it as an exemption.
Very SILLY!!!
Texas Helmet Law
Sangria7, you are wrong about the helmet law in Texas. Helmets are mandatory unless you've taken an MSF-type course or you can prove you have health insurance then you are technically exempt from the helmet law. I took the MSF course and I have medical insurance but I still wear a full face helmet because I want to not because I have to.
I just verified this info by Goggling "texas motorcycle statutes" and clicking on this link...
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/msb/helmet.htm
Munch, I can't imagine using that unconstitutional argument when there are mandatory seat belt laws that are not deemed unconstitutional. There are also laws against suicide. So we are not always allowed to decide our own fate.
Yea . .well we have had laws
Yea . .well we have had laws that said if you were black, you were 1/3 of a human being. The fact a law is passed and not "yet" over turned does not make it right. ((-; I believe in letting Darwin sort such things out where helmets and seat belts are involved.
That said . . only an idiot will ride with no lid at all. I happen to go full face because if I was any uglier no girls would talk to me. ((-;
In Florida we are a "right to chose" state. Over 21, with insurance, something like that, same kind of drill. And I think if you had to get into court . .as long as it has that DOT on the back you would win. Munch, my bet is the same would hold true in NC. Might have to go to court to get it done if you have a non riding activist trooper . . mostly I think they are trying to keep the novelty lids off the street however.
2006 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
Sales, Peterson's North Miami Store
ok ok SO I had it
ok ok SO I had it backwards....LOL
lol.... you are always
lol.... you are always allowed...just might have some extra consequences to go with your decision.
****We know yesterday existed because we remember it, the future we can not predict as it has yet to happen, and the moment you say now it becomes the memorable past...so WHEN in time do we exist?****
Just want to make clear.. .I
Just want to make clear.. .I am all about helmet usage. The constitutional argument has actually worked on some cases. Though I do not have to worry cause my skull is worth more to me then a lawsuit or ticket.
The thing that got me searching is the fact that I work on some LEO's private cars here and they couldn't ever agree on one standard. Even the DOT sticker is subjective as apparently there are some out there with bogus ones that tend to muddle it up more.
I have heard even in some cases in NY where a LEO (I'm not from there, this is from an ex LEO) has it in his power to step on the alleged helmet or infraction and if it cracks they get ticketed twice. Not to mention buy a new helmet.
****We know yesterday existed because we remember it, the future we can not predict as it has yet to happen, and the moment you say now it becomes the memorable past...so WHEN in time do we exist?****
Beware of the "semi-law"
I have begun to see more and more of this. "If you are stopped and you are not wearing your seat belt, we will add $35 to your ticket." Don't worry, it isn't really a law, more of a suggestion. You won't be stopped for not using your seat belt. Now fast forward 4 years. You can be stopped for not wearing your seat belt and it has it's own points and fine assigned. Under 18 laws are just the tickler to a full blown helmet law. Most states are caving to the seat belt and helmet laws because the Feds say if you don't, we MAY not be able to help you out with YOUR highway funds that YOU collected for us. Almost a law is a slippery slope. I think wearing a helmet is a great idea, I think being forced to wear a helmet is BS.
Jay T.
www.ridesafe.today.com
Pennsylvania is weird. The
Pennsylvania is weird. The law here in PA states that you are not obligated to wear a helmet provided you have had your Class-M (unrestricted license) for at least two years. Below two years you are required to wear one.
Personally I believe that helmets should be required under all circumstances in all states, because I have been hit by debris in my helmet that I know would have caused me to lose control of my bike and crash if I were not wearing a helmet because it would have hurt a LOT. That creates a hazard that is dangerous for everyone else around you.
My preferences for helmet laws
Here in Michigan, if you bust your head and don't have insurance, Blue Cross picks it up and the state covers the premium. Which means I get to pay for your accident twice.
The first time, because my tax money had to be used to cover your premium. The second, because I have blue cross insurance myself. And the state pays really low rates, so blue cross charges their paying customers a disproportionately high rate to make up the difference.
So I don't really give a fig about your "rights." I care about the fact that I have to pay higher taxes and higher insurance because you were too special to wear a helmet. Michigan is also a mandatory helmet state, so I don't actually wind up having to pay for that very often. But if a push is made to eliminate the helmet laws, I'll be working for the campaign to keep them.
you might as well fight for a
you might as well fight for a mandatory gear law then too as i suspect you'd be paying the tab twice again for someone not wearing gear and not having insurance and getting something like road rash or a broken back.
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AFM #998
If there's anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now...
I was thinking about that
And that's probably a more likely cause of uninsured injury. Helmet laws are just the ones that people get bent about right now. But a mandatory gear law would probably cause at least as big of a feces storm. I know a couple of guys whose only concession to road rash is a thin leather vest.
I have absolutely zero problem with a mandatory jacket law. There would have to be some kind of rating standard for jackets though, which I don't think there is yet.
Ok .... so why is it so easy
Ok .... so why is it so easy for you to pass judgement on giving up someones rights for them instead of firing or voting against the idiot that forces you to pay for some one elses mistakes?
****We know yesterday existed because we remember it, the future we can not predict as it has yet to happen, and the moment you say now it becomes the memorable past...so WHEN in time do we exist?****
I am
The idiot forcing me to pay for someone else's mistake is the guy not wearing the helmet. There's nobody else up the line who can bear responsibility for that.
I think
WeaponZero and Clay make great points. Choices that an individual makes impacts their families, possibly innocent bystanders, and other taxpayers and citizens.
We say that we live in a free country but it's illegal to yell fire in a public facility when there is no fire. We cannot do whatever we want. I say we have privileges more than freedom. Our representatives try to decide what privileges are most appropriate for our society.
God bless the USA
Even though I can see and
Even though I can see and sympathize with your points and views... but where does it stop? Mandatory helmet law... ok... I can be cool with that....mandatory gear....nope... lets see whats next ....hmmm deaths by motorcycle are more prevalent on sport bikes....lets get rid of those too..... oh yea and hep B from tattoo's....might as well make those go away....cell phones have a slight risk of causing cancer... sorry those are gone to, how about TV, books, computers..they all have some slanted report of eye sight problems.... ok whats next... fast food, related to obesity... parenting? yup there are some bad parents out there too so to avoid that risk lets just stop having kids all together. Trees are known to fall on people... gone...wait then green peace gets upset and riots... they're gone to! Lets not forget wildlife they are known to attack once in a while to.
Think I am going to extremes with this....read your paper, watch the news, hell just look at all the new signs popping up at your local haunts. Let's quit protecting idiots and teach them. At what point are you willing to stop living and just exist?
Every day we bitch and moan about what this costs "US" and what that costs "US" in the short run. Never stopping to think what flood gates are being opened. What we lose in the future as far as freedom of thought, and choice. You ride because you have the freedom to do so. Cause the guys and gals in uniform fight to keep that freedom of choice available to us. Yet year after year we let some white collar out of touch pencil pusher take this stuff away from us for fear that it may add $5 or $10 to our premiums.
Get your soul out of your wallet. Ride for your life and the freedom to do so!
The best saying I have heard in a long time is:
"Only bikers can truly understand why a dog sticks his head out the window of a car"
Think about that the next time you feel the wind hitting your face and the smile you just seem unable to wipe off.
****We know yesterday existed because we remember it, the future we can not predict as it has yet to happen, and the moment you say now it becomes the memorable past...so WHEN in time do we exist?****
yes
You are right that there is a line that is too far. I don't think that having to wear a helmet or seatbelt (and I don't like wearing a seat belt) is over that line, that's just my opinion. And the thing about "what's too far" is that we have millions of opinions on that. So I guess one good thing you or I can do is let our representatives know what we believe about having to wear a helmet. We are lucky to live in a country where we do have a voice.
Hmm, I wonder how many people in office ride motorcycles?
The Governator does
Arnold -- California's governor -- does. And I remember there was a bit of a flair up when he took office and it was learned that he was riding (and had been for years) without a valid MC license.
Seat belts and airbags.
Got your behind strapped to a motorcycle and hit a bump that makes the newly enforced airbag go off and break your neck. At least you can have an open coffin. This is supposed to be the land of the FREE. I should have the right to choose. These laws are getting as bad as the law suits filed by ambulance chasers. Maybe it is all coming from the same place. No need for me to get political here. Just what I said before, a law with no points but a fine (even a tiny little one) or a law to save the Chillllruunnn, will usually become a law that is "good for everyone". I just don't need someone who barely ever held and honest job telling me what is good for me. I can see requiring med-pay so the rest of the world doesn't have to pay for something I am choosing to do. Then it is a cost of my transportation. Nuff said.
Thanks
Jay T.
www.ridesafe.today.com
Common sense
All I know about my full face helmet is that it recently deflected a rock that otherwise would have hit me in the eye. It just seems like common sense - you need something to protect your face and head. Not to mention, when I do go down (and I'm sure I will at some point) I'd much prefer walking away from that crash instead of being carried away in a body bag. Having gone to a MSF course and read the findings of the Hurt report, the benefits of a helmet obviously outweigh the inconvenience of putting it on, to me at least.
For me it is not wether TO
For me it is not wether TO WEAR or NOT TO WEAR a helmet. I can however appreciate those who feel it should be within their power to choose.
My concern is here in NC there seems to be varying opinions specifically with half helmets as to what is legal and what is not.
****We know yesterday existed because we remember it, the future we can not predict as it has yet to happen, and the moment you say now it becomes the memorable past...so WHEN in time do we exist?****
Assault bike
There is no reason someone needs a bike that can go more than 65mph or more than 250cc's. Anything more than that is a menace to the collective society and the citizens of the Earth. Think of how many lives we could save if we banned assault sport bikes and only allowed modest cruisers or standards and required all riders to wear full gear that complied with UN standards.
Surely, you can all find it in your hearts to agree with me if it will save even one life?
;-)
LOL....almost missed the
LOL....almost missed the wink.... and ummm no. If we are going to really try to save lives might as well abolish religion, politics, hate, greed....clearly have a defining line between ambition and greed so we don't mis judge... oh wait... what to do with those that offend the new "regulation" .... hmm... can't kill em, that would be breaking our own rule...... selective breeding?.... hmmmm..... That has been tried over and over again.... hmmmm how to keep idiots from killing themselves...... build something idiot proof!!!! Wait wait.... then ma nature comes up with a better idiot. ..... dang ... I know the answer has got to be there somewhere...................
****We know yesterday existed because we remember it, the future we can not predict as it has yet to happen, and the moment you say now it becomes the memorable past...so WHEN in time do we exist?****
Plug all the idiots into
Plug all the idiots into their Ipods and let them get lost in the internet while we the sensible wander as outcasts and memorize passages from famous books to pass onto future generations once the politically correct powerful self-implode the country.
Anyone interested in a Fahrenheit 451 reading group? ;)
No helmet laws here in AZ.
No helmet laws here in AZ. IMHO, it's definitely the rider's choice. I think it should be mandatory for pillion's though, because it's not their decision how the rider drives the bike. I'll always ATGATT, whether the law cares or not. I'm not doing it to conform, I'm trying to save my ass in a wreck.
I'm with you! I nag my hubby
I'm with you! I nag my hubby when he whines about it being hot out and not wanting to wear his jacket....he wears his tennis shoes, but we're trying to buy him a bike and new boots....so then he'll wear them. We only have my bike right now, and I wouldn't let him take it out if he didn't wear his jacket.....I felt like such a B*tch. I told him that I didn't really care to inherit his life insurance.......